[joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 2

Steve Schneider steve at theavocadopapers.com
Sun May 1 16:32:43 PDT 2005

Yes, and I agree that it provides a counterpoint, certainly.  Whether --
to me, only to me -- it's "wonderful" or not is another story.  I like
the concept, the abstract idea of this cointerpoint, but wonder
sometimes if the fact of Kornfield lectures interspersed throughout the
shows "works."  After all, there's quite a bit of counterpoint in those
shows without them.  Maybe it just comes down to this: that I feel
there's more for me to LEARN FROM -- and certainly more for me to
IDENTIFY WITH -- in, for example, your conversations with JF, than there
is in listening to a (prmarily) Buddhist teacher's reflections on how
one might lead an "ideal" life.  E.g., I'm not religious, but it seems
to be that Christ -- assuming there was some actualy historical figure
resembling him -- probably had a lot to say about how to live a decent,
fulfilling life.  But I'm not sure I'd want to hear his lectures about
turning the other cheek and so on.
And I agree with you definitely, Larry, that there is something perhaps
crypto-Faschistic and certainly naive about Dyer's or Kornfield's notion
that one can just BE a certain way if one TRIES HARD ENOUGH (implying,
btw, that if you fail to BECOME this certain way, you've clearly not
TRIED hard enough).  It reminds me of a conversation that you had with
JF in which you recalled some 1960s- or 70s-era guru who proposed such a
way of thinking, and you said something like "it's not NEARLY that
EASY!!"  And I agree.  I'd say that, often, it's impossible, actually.
And generally when something's impossible, one tries OTHER approaches to
achieve whatever the goal is (the goal here being to achieve a
fulfilling/meaningful/happy life, I guess).  If you want to fly from New
York to L.A., you could try flapping your wings REALLY HARD.  But you'd
find that to be an impossible way of flying.  So, instead, you'd
probably go to Jetblue.com instead and buy a ticket. You'd have shelled
out $400 for the flight, but think of all the time and energy you'd have
saved for OTHER things that you want to accomplish.
It also reminds me of various conversations that JF has had with Debi
Mae West (e.g. her claim that perhaps she self-healed herself from
cancer): JF's response was that the outgrowth of that way of thinking is
that if one gets cancer, one hasn't TRIED HARD ENOUGH -- or chanted
enough or been devoted to one's faith enough.
Which in TURN reminds me -- and think about it: it's not so different --
of Jerry Falwell saying that lesbians, pro-choicers, "members of the
ACLU" (he actually said that), and others "have to take some of the
blame" for 9/11, because "God will not be mocked."  What he's saying --
well, is it so different from saying that one can ward off cancer by
being a devoted Buddhist?
-- Steve.

-----Original Message-----
From: joe-frank-list-bounces at armory.com
[mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces at armory.com] On Behalf Of LBlockD at aol.com
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 6:40 PM
To: joe-frank-list at armory.com
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 2
Importance: Low

STEVE:  Sorry to have not addressed your insights.  Agreed, we put up
with Jack because Joe put him there, but don't you see the wondeful
counterpoint of us low-down strugglers and this smooth talking guru. I
think he's cool, but as arrogant as Wayne Dyer to suggest that his sense
of things is available to me just because he says so.  It's a kind of
crypto-fascism, dontcha think?  We could all be fine if only we really
wanted to be. With regard to Kate: she's much less mysterious than you
might think.  Just a beautiful woman that got Joe's attention and
wouldn't let go of it even after she had let go of it.   Larry Block

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