[joe-frank-list] J. Kornfield

Sun May 1 16:03:49 PDT 2005

Yeah -- I like them sometimes too; sometimes, though, for whatever
reason, they're not what I want to hear in the context of a J.F. show,
but that's my problem, not anyone else's.  The reason I brought them up
was more because I was curious about what J.F.'s thoughts were on them.
As I said, my initial reaction (that JF put them in there as an example
of a futile worldview) was disspelled pretty quickly.  I must say that
it's hard for me to relate to Kornfield's ideas on how to live one's
life because I think (and I don't think I'm alone here, or I wouldn't
mention it) that I thrive on internal conflict, on my conflicting ideas
about how one should live his life; I'm not sure I'd like to have those
conflicts resolved.  Maybe this is my New York outlook: I think a lot of
New Yorkers THRIVE on (internal and external) conflict -- sometimes it's
hard to imagine why someone would otherwise choose to live in New York
City.  

I thought of something, btw, that JF said about Kornfield -- was
thinking before that he never referred directly to him except in a few
phone conversations w/ Larry Block -- on "Insomnia," he said (about an
ex-KCRW staffer who neglected to repay a debt to him) something like
"then I tried to be a little Kornfeldian for a moment and love the
little fucker who stole from me."  This sounds to me like a statement
made by someone with ambivilent feelings about Kornfield -- or at least,
someone who, in moments of "crisis," wonders, "what's in this guy's
teachings that's relevant to MY life; this jerk STOLE from me!" (the
jerk being the ex-KCRW staffer, not JK).  It also sounds in line with
what Larry Block says about his and JF's "approach" to Kornfield.

(A topic for another time: I wonder if Kornfield has listened to JF's
work, and if so, what he thinks about it.)

-- Steve.

-----Original Message-----
From: joe-frank-list-bounces at armory.com
[mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces at armory.com] On Behalf Of John Dooley
Cradock
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 6:25 PM
To: Joe Frank Mailing List
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] J. Kornfield
Importance: Low

I dig the Jack Kornfield stuff. I first heard him in these Joe Frank  
programs. After that, I sought out more of his stuff. His voice is  
what gets me. It's so calm, so placid.

On May 1, 2005, at 6:14 PM, Steve Schneider wrote:

> This post didnt really concern Kate at all; it concerned J. Kornfield.
> (Also: this list is for discussing J.F.'s current work only?)  Anyway:

> love to know anyone's thoughts about those lectures  -- Steve.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joe-frank-list-bounces at armory.com 
> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces at armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 12:28 PM
> To: Joe Frank Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
> Importance: Low
>
>
> Do we really need to return to the conversation about "Kate"?  I 
> understand Steve here is just now exploring this subject, and
> that's his
> prerogative, but personally I'd rather participate in a discussion  
> about
> Joe's *current* work.
>
> Don't mind me; go ahead and talk about Kate to your heart's
> content...I
> know it's a fascinating subject...
>
> Harold J.
>
> On 5/1/05, Steve Schneider <steve at theavocadopapers.com> wrote:
>
>> Well -- I guess I should qualify what I said about my uneasiness 
>> referring to Joe Frank as "Joe": I realize that it's a convention on 
>> lists like these to refer to the subject of the list by his or her 
>> first name, and that that doesn't necessarily imply a familiarity
>> that
>>
>
>
>> isn't there.  So I don't mean to suggest that anyone on this list is 
>> doing that.  Maybe it's particularly tricky with a "subject" such as 
>> J.F., since one might be inclined after listening to dozens and
>> dozens
>>
>
>
>> of his shows -- and particularly Karma-like shows -- to think that
>> one
>>
>
>
>> "knows" him, since the shows are, at least seemingly, so personal in
>> nature.
>>
>> Anyway: Kate: anyone?  No takers?  K, whether there are or not,  
>> here's
>> another question to ponder, and it doesn't require speculation about
>> someone's personal life: what do you think is J.F.'s feeling about
>> Jack Kornfield?  As far as I know -- and I could be wrong -- J.K.'s
>> first appearance on a J.F. show is in the first Karma program.  I
>> SWEAR that J.F. put a laugh track over that first appearance (yes,
>> there is often audience laughter in K's segments, but this was more
>> overt, and the laughter was at particularly inappropriate moments),
>> and I proceeded, through a few more Karma shows, to think that J.F.
>> had included the J.K. "reflections" as an example of a futile
>> worldview.  But that doesn't seem to be the case at all.
>>
>> The only time I've even ever heard J.F. refer to the J.K. segments  
>> was
>> in an interview: he says something about his shows being "religious"
>> in the sense that it contrasts the sacred and the profane (note:
>> that's a paraphrase).  With the sacred represented by Kornfield's
>> lectures and the profane represented by "normal" people such as J.F.,
>> Debi Mae West, and L. Block just dealing with life's struggles as  
>> best
>>
>
>
>> they can.  I have to say, personally, that I find the Kornfield
>> lectures to be my least favorite parts of the shows in which they
>> appear; I hesitate, though, to fast-forward through them because the
>> artist who created these shows put them there and I feel that I  
>> should
>>
>
>
>> therefore listen to them.  But I find the other stuff -- the phone
>> calls with L.B., D.M.W., J.F.'s mother, D. Rafkin, and others; the
>> first-person narrations of the latest Kate drama; the  
>> reminiscences of
>>
>
>
>> things like the NYC blackout; etc. -- to be much more entertaining,
>> interesting, enlightening, relevant, etc.
>>
>> Would love to know others' thoughts on this topic.  And the Kate
>> topic. Call me a gossip-monger; I don't think I am being one  
>> (although
>>
>
>
>> I will admit to a certain amount of gut-level curiosity).
>>
>> -- Steve.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: joe-frank-list-bounces at armory.com
>> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces at armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold  
>> Johnson
>> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:25 PM
>> To: Joe Frank Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
>> Importance: Low
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> I haven't posted to this group a whole lot either, though I've been
>> watching it off and on for a few years.  I'm glad to see you've
>> posted, especially since you seem to have taken the time to post a
>> well-thought, intelligent and considerate post.
>>
>> So here's my thoughts: I don't believe there are any particular rules
>> here; I would expect the common sense protocols common on many online
>> forums.  In other words, respect your neighbor, etc.  Though I'd
>> imagine many of us hold Joe Frank - or at the very least, his art  
>> - at
>>
>
>
>> high esteem, but I'm not about to say I worship him (yet; though  
>> if he
>>
>
>
>> starts a religion, I don't know, LOL).
>>
>> I find it funny that you say you're not quite comfortable  
>> referring to
>> him as "Joe" yet; I've often had the same feeling.  When I refer to
>> him here or on one of my blogs - let's say I'm writing some  
>> commentary
>>
>
>
>> about storytelling artists or something - I'm inclined to refer to  
>> the
>>
>
>
>> man by his full name, too.  I believe it's because I don't wish to be
>> perceived as one of those nutjobs who talks about a
>> celebrity/artist/whomever as if they *really* know her.  (I'm not
>> referring to any of you posting to this list - except for you, of
>> course, Larry Block.  That's a joke,
>> LOL.)
>>
>> Example: Following is a link to some commentary I recently posted in
>> which I mentioned Joe Frank; you'll, however, that I *crossed the
>> line* and referred to him by his forename:
>>
>> http://www.somethingthathappened.com/2005/04/hi-reed-i-want-to- 
>> express
>> -t
>> o-you-how.html
>>
>> That's all I have to say for now.  I'm off to watch an episode of
>> Deadwood I picked up at Goodwill; I hear this show's pretty decent.
>>
>> Harold J. Johnson
>>
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>>
>>
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