[joe-frank-list] Kate?

Steve Schneider steve at theavocadopapers.com
Sun May 1 00:49:25 PDT 2005

Well -- I guess I should qualify what I said about my uneasiness
referring to Joe Frank as "Joe": I realize that it's a convention on
lists like these to refer to the subject of the list by his or her first
name, and that that doesn't necessarily imply a familiarity that isn't
there.  So I don't mean to suggest that anyone on this list is doing
that.  Maybe it's particularly tricky with a "subject" such as J.F.,
since one might be inclined after listening to dozens and dozens of his
shows -- and particularly Karma-like shows -- to think that one "knows"
him, since the shows are, at least seemingly, so personal in nature.

Anyway: Kate: anyone?  No takers?  K, whether there are or not, here's
another question to ponder, and it doesn't require speculation about
someone's personal life: what do you think is J.F.'s feeling about Jack
Kornfield?  As far as I know -- and I could be wrong -- J.K.'s first
appearance on a J.F. show is in the first Karma program.  I SWEAR that
J.F. put a laugh track over that first appearance (yes, there is often
audience laughter in K's segments, but this was more overt, and the
laughter was at particularly inappropriate moments), and I proceeded,
through a few more Karma shows, to think that J.F. had included the J.K.
"reflections" as an example of a futile worldview.  But that doesn't
seem to be the case at all.

The only time I've even ever heard J.F. refer to the J.K. segments was
in an interview: he says something about his shows being "religious" in
the sense that it contrasts the sacred and the profane (note: that's a
paraphrase).  With the sacred represented by Kornfield's lectures and
the profane represented by "normal" people such as J.F., Debi Mae West,
and L. Block just dealing with life's struggles as best they can.  I
have to say, personally, that I find the Kornfield lectures to be my
least favorite parts of the shows in which they appear; I hesitate,
though, to fast-forward through them because the artist who created
these shows put them there and I feel that I should therefore listen to
them.  But I find the other stuff -- the phone calls with L.B., D.M.W.,
J.F.'s mother, D. Rafkin, and others; the first-person narrations of the
latest Kate drama; the reminiscences of things like the NYC blackout;
etc. -- to be much more entertaining, interesting, enlightening,
relevant, etc.

Would love to know others' thoughts on this topic.  And the Kate topic.
Call me a gossip-monger; I don't think I am being one (although I will
admit to a certain amount of gut-level curiosity).

-- Steve.

-----Original Message-----
From: joe-frank-list-bounces at armory.com
[mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces at armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold Johnson
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:25 PM
To: Joe Frank Mailing List
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
Importance: Low

Hi Steve,

I haven't posted to this group a whole lot either, though I've been
watching it off and on for a few years.  I'm glad to see you've posted,
especially since you seem to have taken the time to post a well-thought,
intelligent and considerate post.

So here's my thoughts: I don't believe there are any particular rules
here; I would expect the common sense protocols common on many online
forums.  In other words, respect your neighbor, etc.  Though I'd imagine
many of us hold Joe Frank - or at the very least, his art - at high
esteem, but I'm not about to say I worship him (yet; though if he starts
a religion, I don't know, LOL).

I find it funny that you say you're not quite comfortable referring to
him as "Joe" yet; I've often had the same feeling.  When I refer to him
here or on one of my blogs - let's say I'm writing some commentary about
storytelling artists or something - I'm inclined to refer to the man by
his full name, too.  I believe it's because I don't wish to be perceived
as one of those nutjobs who talks about a celebrity/artist/whomever as
if they *really* know her.  (I'm not referring to any of you posting to
this list - except for you, of course, Larry Block.  That's a joke,

Example: Following is a link to some commentary I recently posted in
which I mentioned Joe Frank; you'll, however, that I *crossed the
line* and referred to him by his forename:


That's all I have to say for now.  I'm off to watch an episode of
Deadwood I picked up at Goodwill; I hear this show's pretty decent.

Harold J. Johnson

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