[joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public

Matt on Hotmail matthewshepherd at hotmail.com
Fri Nov 5 12:31:40 PST 2004

There was a very definite request to a member of this newsgroup, which was
then copied to the newsgroup, to no longer post MP3s for downloading /

Not taking a position one way or the other -- just clearing up that
particular question.

- Matt

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chavez, Aaron, ISD" <achavez382 at worldsavings.com>
To: <rholland356 at yahoo.com>; "Joe Frank Mailing List"
<joe-frank-list at armory.com>
Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 3:09 PM
Subject: RE: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public

I can't speak for Dave, but what his message correctly stated was that
for quite a while, Joe's work was publicly available and trade was
sanctioned...he didn't say 'public domain'.  It is no longer publicly
available and trading, while no longer sanctioned, has now fallen into
that legally and morally grey domain of 'fair use'.

I comply out of respect for his wishes, not for respect of copyright.
Although these are in effect the same thing, I don't believe he ever
said 'cease and desist' in this forum.  Perhaps those that were running
the swap sites could offer a different perspective.  It would sadden me
to think that they were approached with anything more than a friendly

At one point, I suggested to the list the possibility of transcribing
shows as a joint effort among the members.  My motivation was to make
his work even more accessible.  At the time, his web site was static and
hadn't offered anything new is quite a while.  While there was a little
enthusiasm, most expressed concerns about Joe's wishes.  He cleared up
any questions with another email to the list asking that we not do that
as they figured into some new work that he was pursuing.  It seems he
was referring to his revamped web site.

If the debate here is whether file sharing and derived works are legal,
I really don't care.  If the argument is that Joe Frank will lose money
if they are allowed, I agree, I think he would.  But do I think he is
losing money because fans are copying and distributing his material, I
say no, they care too much about his ongoing success.

Aaron Chavez

-----Original Message-----
From: joe-frank-list-bounces at armory.com
[mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces at armory.com] On Behalf Of Robert Holland
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 9:54 PM
To: Joe Frank Mailing List
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public

Rubbish, Dave.

Joe's work was broadcast, but never in the public
domain. He and his heirs will retain copyright for
quite a long time.

I like it that Joe is leveraging the technology that
others used to share his work. He's asked those who
shared and collected to please cease and desist from
distributing the recordings, and certainly to refrain
from transcribing his work into written scripts.


--- Dave Dyer <ddyer at real-me.net> wrote:

> Joe's work was all public, or at leat 95% of if was,
> due to the
> dilligent efforts of his fans, who collected,
> stored, and supplied
> bandwidth to distribute it.  All at no cost (and no
> income) to
> Joe.  But it did keep the flame alive, and the
> sometimes inferior
> technical quality and/or censored for airplay
> versions served to
> tease fans into buying real copies on CD.
> Lets be charitable and say that Joe is in a dry
> spell in his
> creative career, and is trying various means to cash
> in
> on his glory days, when he had an audience of
> millions.
> His live performances are great (so I've read here)
> but play
> to those who remember his radio work.  This
> subscription
> plan is another way to extract a little more cash
> from his
> ageing fan base.  I don't see either of these things
> as
> career advancing moves.  Sadly, I fear his remarks
> upon
> receiving the lifetime achievement award will prove
> accurate.
> I have no idea if joefrank.com is being created by
> well paid
> professionals or another cadre of devoted fans, but
> I can't
> imagine that this subscription plan will generate
> enough income
> to justify a realistic account of the expenses
> involved.  Meantime
> it has succeeded in making joe's work a lot less
> acessable.
> That can't be good for the long run.
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list at armory.com

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