It's been more than three years since the above discussion on Demokritos University of Thrace and nationalist rhetoric. The propaganda is continuing unabated by the University of Thrace,  for further details please read the discussion below.  

Please bear in mind that this University is in a multicultural and multi-ethnic area of Thrace, with numerous Turks, Pomaks and Roma. The University of Thrace instead of promoting peaceful cohabitation, equality, it is promoting racial hatred. 

You can email your protests and comments to International Relations Office  or send your faxes to

 0030 541 727 92

N. Tsolak

   Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 07:54:05 +0300
     Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
     From thrace@demokritos.cc.duth.gr Mon Aug 11 07: 57:35 1997
     Organization: Democritus University of Thrace
     Reply-To: thrace@demokritos.cc.duth.gr
     Sender: thrace@demokritos.cc.duth.gr

About a month ago I sent to this list a message regarding the DUTh homepage (12 Jul 1997).

To summarize, I was asking why:

1) this homepage carried links to a number of pages that can  only be described as propaganda of the worst kind (i.e., ethnic hatred);

2) this homepage contained texts that were supposedly written by knowledgable people, probably affiliated with the DUTh, about the history of Western Thrace - texts which reflected a "hardcore  nationalist" view of Thracian history.

Finally I asked:

3) "Do these pages really reflect the "official" discourse of the DUTh?" I also added: "What surprises me is not the content, for it can be found in many different sources, but the fact that it is included on the pages of an educational institution."

To my surprise, no one bothered to comment on these questions. No one with any official DUTh affiliation responded either.

Last week, on Monday (4 Aug 1997), I directed these questions directly to the Webmasters at DUTh (webmasters@cc.duth.gr),  who should be ultimately responsible for the content of these  pages.

Amazingly enough, this e-mail also went unnoticed by the Webmasters at DUTh.

The "deaf ears" that do not respond to my questions about the official pages of an educational institution leave me
with two alternatives:

1) Spreading ethnic hatred is the official policy of the DUTh. These pages and the discourse on them simply reflect this policy.

2) The first alternative is not one that I'd like to believe. I'm more inclined to believe that these pages reflect the views
of one or more of the Webmasters at DUTh, rather than DUTh official policy.  My guess is that the Webmaster has a personal
grudge against the "Turks" and is using these pages to wage an "internet crusade" against them.

When I criticized these pages for the first time on 12 Jul 1997, the pages I was referring to carried the note "last modified  Jan 21, 1996". When I checked these pages once again on 4 Aug, I noted that one of the links I had criticized was removed. The page still said "last modified Jan 21, 1996", as if the page had not been touched.

This meant that the link I had criticized THE TURKISH CRIME OF OUR  CENTURY (http://imia.cc.duth.gr/turkey/) was removed from one of the pages (namely, TOUR TO GREECE) by the DUTh webmasters. I presume that the webmasters saw my message and removed the link. However, they did not touch the other link leading to the same page. Nor did they change the "historical texts" I had criticized.

Therefore, in my e-mail to the DUTh webmasters I posed the following  question :
 

>Until three weeks ago, these pages carried the samelink, placed under TOUR TO GREECE [http://www.duth.gr/Tour.html]. I publicly questioned the logic of introducing this link as part of "TOUR TO GREECE". Evidently someone has noticed my criticism and the link has since been removed. I wish this person had answered my questions publicly, in addition to removing the link I had questioned.

>Note that the homepage gets you to the same page if you follow the "What's New ?" link. Clearly someone, and because this is the official webpage, the Democritus University of Thrace, wants the reader not to miss this page.

I also hope that the members of this list who are concerned about  ethnic hatred being promoted on the pages of a Greek educational institution, namely DUTh, will join me in demanding answers from the webmasters.

I will continue to publicize this situation on other lists, as well as through educational channels on the web, until I receive a satisfactory response from the DUTh webmasters.
 

Good night/Kalinikta/Iyi geceler,

Serdar M. Degirmencioglu
 

At 04:22 PM 8/11/97 -0400, you wrote:
>Dear Serdar:
>
>I have seen the first part of your posting, and I still cannot see why
>the "Turkish Crime of Our Century" is a 'hate page'.  Would you consider
>the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC, a 'hate museum'?
>
>Regards
>
>Stratos

Stratos,

I waited to see if anyone else would respond to your comments. That has not happened, so here I go. Before I comment on your far-fetched analogy and the content of the DUTh pages, let me remind you what the essence of my message was:

I was wondering why the Democritus University of Thrace, an educational institution, felt the "necessity" to place a link
to a page called "THE TURKISH CRIME OF OUR CENTURY" on its official homepage.

This link was placed on a page called "TOUR TO GREECE". (Last year it was placed in the middle of a page that had the
map of W. Thrace.) I am trying to fathom the logic of  introducing this link as part of a "TOUR TO GREECE".

As I noted in my previous message, the webmasters removed this link from the page "TOUR TO GREECE", after I had criticized this link.

So I'm wondering:

1) why was the link there in the first place?

2) why has it been removed, if it was right and official policy  to have it on this page to begin with?

3) why did the webmasters not respond to my criticisms even though they felt obliged to remove this link?

4) did all this happen with the full knowledge of the officials of the DUTh - or is it the webmasters who determine the content  of an official university homepage?  With whose approval has this page been removed (or was introduced in the first place)?

Note that the "Tour to Greece" pages are maintained by:

 Panagiotis S. Saragiotis, pssara@demokritos.cc.duth.gr
 Moses A. Boudourides, mboudour@duth.gr

Therefore, it seems to me these two individuals are the ones to answer my questions.  I have informed them about what I think,
using the official feedback address on the DUTh pages. I am still waiting for a response.

I hope that you now see why I am insisting that I get a response. Perhaps you will now join me in asking the webmasters to fulfill their responsibility to respond to my questions and concerns publicly.

Now back to your analogy:

Your analogy to the Holocaust Museum in Washington D.C. is ill-conceived, if not ill-intentioned. The pages contained
under the title "Turkish Crime of Our Century" are full of the kind of disgusting nationalism and hatred that led to
the Holocaust.

I doubt that you had read these pages before conceiving this analogy. Because if you had, you would have recognized the raw
ethnic hatred that is contained on these pages. When you get a chance, take a look at the text titled "Declaration".
That alone will show you what these pages are about.

It is sad that these pages (and other pages like this) still exist and you felt the necessity to defend these pages.

Good night - Kalinikta - Iyi geceler,

Serdar M. Degirmencioglu
 

Demokritos university appears to be involved in a crusade against Turks or anything to do with Turks. Last year they organised a conference on Turks, Turkish crimes, etc., why in Thrace, in a place where according to the Greek Foreign ministry (www.mfa.gr) 50 percent of the minority is of Turkish origin, some 60.000 Greek citizens of Turkish decent. Does the Demokritos university staff think that the Greekness of Thrace is in dispute, needing to reassert their identity on the expense of the Turkish origin minority or do the staff think that this would promote the peaceful coexistence and racial harmony in Thrace.  Maybe the underlying assumption of the Duth staff is that they are trying to counteract the 'Turkish' propaganda, because of such claims whether the minority is Turkish or not. I fail to understand the motives and idea behind this type of propagation of prejudice.

The Duth web pages have completely omitted the minority in Thrace, there seems to be only one mention, the old ancient race of Pomaks. The web pages appeared to be concentrated more than anything else on ethnicity, religion
and Greek ethnic identity, where there is little space for minorities.  But I wonder doesn't  the Duth staff do any studies with the minority, any cultural, social anthropological, etc. studies that would be of some interest to me and to others. What they seem to be interested in is the 'Turkish Crimes of Our Century'. We all know by now that Turks are inherently evil, barbaric, etc. courtesy of the Demokritos university of Thrace.
 

Nihat

9246101t@udcf.gla.ac.uk
http://www.gla.ac.uk/~9246101t/

Stratos,

Thanks for your very quick and equally misinformed reply. I particularly appreciated your patronizing discourse -
telling me that I needn't feel embarrassed and I, and we the people of Turkey, should own up to our history. Thanks,
but I do not think anyone would or should take your "advice" very seriously. You find nothing wrong with the "Turkish
Crimes" pages; you find it perfectly appropriate for DUTh to disseminate ethnic hatred on its homepage; you don't
mind if the DUTh homepages ignore the W. Thracian minority completely; and you tell Nihat, a good citizen of Greece who feels insulted by the content of the DUTh pages, that as "a progressive person" he should not feel insulted. Do you not see how imprudent and patronizing your comments are ?

Your response also proves my point that you had not read the "Turkish Crimes" pages before you responded to my e-mail.
You tell me that you have read "the book". Evidently you do not have a problem relying on your memory, instead of
showing us the courtesy to first take a look at the pages in question, refresh your memory, and then respond.

I see the same attitude in the way you are responding to my criticism of the DUTh homepage. You do not hesitate to
admit that you are "not familiar with the organization of the links" and therefore you "will have to check them first
to see their logic." Bravo. That is certainly the right course of action and by not taking that course of action you
show me how much respect you have for informed dialogue - and for the members of this list who need to read your
writings even though you have no idea about the "links" and "content" in question. Perhaps you should ask yourself:
"Why do I feel this urge to respond right away; could it be that I'm ashamed, and this guy Serdar is not?"

You say nothing whatsoever regarding the removal of the link, the silence on the part of the webmasters (one of whom
apparently is a friend of yours), why DUTh should feel the necessity to show anyone who visits its site that the "Turks
are evil". You are mute on the question of whether or not this is official DUTh policy, too. You may want to ask your
webmaster friend if that is the case - we are not getting any response from the webmasters of DUTh.

The only response you can come up with, regarding whether DUTh as an educational institution should carry such a link
(i.e, "The Turkish Crimes" page), is that universities in the USA carry such links, too. Even if they did, that would not
justify the DUTh's offense; but still, I think I should ask you to give us a couple of examples of such links, given the fact
that you claim they exist. To my knowledge, universities in the US tend to be very concerned about what they put on their
homepages. They certainly would not include ethnic hatred (or its equivalent racial hatred) on their pages.

So, if you want to continue this exchange, PLEASE try to respond to my repeated concerns - and AFTER you have read
the relevant material. If you do not want to deal with the questions that I have directed to DUTh webmasters,
please say so. There is no point in evading these questions by trying to justify how "truthful" the "The Turkish Crimes"
pages are.

Finally, you illustrate very well how many Greeks, including some who think of themselves as progressives, social democrats, and even socialists, join the "nationalism" bandwagon and stick to the "official Greek history". In this version of history, which has an equally embarrassing counterpart across the Aegean, everything that the "enemy" has ever done is wrong (see example on DUTh pages) and therefore everything that "we Greeks" have ever done must be right. Because we are so right,nationalism is naturally the right kind of thinking.

This kind of thinking justifies, in every instance that the name "Turkey" comes up, and regardless of the content of the
conversation, jumping up and down, and screaming "they took Constantinopolis, they occupied Greece, they did this, they did
that to us; and look at the Armenians,look at the Greeks of Pontos, and look ..."  The DUTh pages reflect this mentality -
the question is whether this embarrassment is official or perhaps the work of a zealous webmaster.

It is absolutely true that citizens of Turkey should know and own up to their history. And the same applies to the citizens of Greece. We all need to know what nationalism has done to us and own up to *our common* history. That requires thinking about the future and thinking about solutions to our current "problems", not the constant blaming of "you are all black; we are all white" (as we say in Turkish) mentality.

It is especially important that citizens of both countries, but especially citizens of Greece, understand that the future, our future needs solutions. If they are expecting a change in the policies of the Turkish government, the relentless barrage of the same old line, "the evil Turks", will not help. If you are still unable to say Istanbul, you won't get far. The
mindless and indiscriminate parroting of the same old bullshit simply plays into the hands of the nationalists on "the other
side". Well, nationalists on both sides have enjoyed this very much and the current impasse on multiple fronts are their
works. If you want to maintain the current impasse, maintain the current discourse and make sure pages like DUTh pages exist.

If you prefer change, however, make sure you find "Turks" who are willing to listen to you, and make sure you are willing
to listen in the first place. There are many Greeks and Turks around who see through the smoke screen of ethnic hatred, and if
you are willing to search, I'm sure you will find more. Change will only happen that way.

And please, please refrain from making comments like:

>Turkey has a horrific record of human rights and does not respect the
>international law.  The first victims of this practice is its citizens
>today.

I *am* one of those citizens and am working for change in Turkey. I see a hypocrite in the person who defends pages full of ethnic hatred and then pretends to be concerned for the good of "the evil Turks" villified on the pages he defends. Thanks, but we do not need your patronizing help.

Serdar M. Degirmencioglu
 

Stratos,

Did not know that you were invited in. So my memory does not need refreshing; sorry.

Who, may I ask, invited you to join?

Serdar
 
Stratos does not want to reveal the truth about who asked him to join the list and defend DUTh.

 “Whichever their intentions are, it remains a fact that [the site in question] promotes nationalist hatred.”
Evangelos Batris

Dear friends,

Often hypocrites try to disguise their nationalist aspirations as struggle for human rights and peace. I am afraid that the Turkish
regimes and their agents in Thrace and Cyprus are not alone here, as some authors frequently imply.

My opinion is that the site under consideration ("The Turkish crimes of the century" http://imia.cc.duth.gr/turkey/) is nothing its
autors should be proud of.

There's nothing wrong in remembering (and acknowledging) the sad historical moments of the past. Moreover it's appropriate to remain vigilant and prevent the repetition of the same crimes. And it is needed to respect the memories and the feelings of the victims of those tragedies. ALL victims. (Perhaps, some friends of the list may remember my dismay -consistent with this need for respect of the victims- regarding the Rouvas/Kut concert in Cyprus, on the very anniversary of the tragedy of the Pontian Greeks.)

To remember, respect and be vigilant is one thing.  To identify a whole nation with evil is another thing.  It is cold war ethics, racism, nationalism, fascism, unacceptable... And, sadly, this unacceptable thing is exactly what this site contributes to!

The site directly associates "the Turkish" with the Evil, instead of clearly making the necessary distinctions between the criminals and their innocent compatriots (some of which are also victims). Like all the Jews were made guilty for Zionism in the dark years of the past, all the Turks are, according to the obvious spirit of the text, associated to the crimes of the various regimes of Turkey.  A turkish flag -the symbol of a whole nation- full of blood is "decorating" the front page of the site; it becomes the symbol of evil - the Evil Nation. And the "declaration" of the site tales  (http://imia.cc.duth.gr/turkey/decl.e.html):

<<DECLARATION

<<Of all enslaved nations of Turkey to the Public Opinion of mankind and
<<every man of good will, This publication aims :

<<To attract the attention of mankind to the victims of Turkish
<<atrocities and vandalisms and to perpetuate the historical memory to
<<those acts.

<<To inform mankind of the policy of genocide for millions of people,
<<followed by all Turkish governments in the recent past against the
<<enslaved inhabitants who lived in Asia Minor and formed the majority
<<of the population.

<<To extend justice and condemn Turkey for its crimes.
<< [...]

The (one and only) reference to "Turkish governments" is a weak effort to make the content of the text appear 'milder' to the eyes of the reader. Otherwise, the authors appear indifferent to the fact that attrocities are a part of most nations' history.  Including the recent Greek history. Their obvious aim is to "condemn Turkey for its crimes" without any explicit reference to the individuals and the regimes who bear the responsibility for those crimes.

Replace the word "Turkish" with "Greek" or "Jewish" and you'll get my point.

The declaration continues:

<< [...]
<<This condemnation is inevitable if there are any traces of
<<civilization and selfrespect left under the veil of hypocricy and
<<immorality of international politics.

<<The entire history of the Ottoman Empire and contemporary Turkey is a
<<series of continuous imperialism, slaughter, plunder and endless
<<bloodshed of the people who had the misfortune to be conquered by the
<<Turks.

<<Greeks, Armenians, Syrians, Arabs, Kurds and recently Cypriots were
<<the victims of the Turkish brutality.

<< [...]

<<Furthermore the principles of civilization and humanity whichu are
<<revered by all civilized nations are being discarded by the Turks.
<<Otherwise, there wouldn't have been all those millions of victims. The
<<atrocities, plunder, vandalism, slaughter and geniocide which have
<<been and continue to be committed by the Turks are a stigma to the
<<contemporary civilization.

<<It is a sign of moral decline of our times that the International
<<Public opinion tolerates these acts of Turkey that degrade human
<<civilization and does not impose a just punishment.

<< [...]

It appears that the aim of the authors is not to condemn attrocities as such, but to condemn the attrocities of "the Turks".  This site seems to me as a contributor to the "veil of hypocricy and immorality of international politics".

The declaration ends:

<<  [...]

<<Therefore, we ask you to join with us a voice of protest against
<<the Turkish atrocities and declare that we shall continue our
<<struggle to the final victory, the liberation of our ancestral land
<<from our oppressors.

<<The oppressed nationalities of Asia Minor.

<<ARMENIANS - KURDS - GREEKS - SYRIANS - CYPRIOTS

The authors should be honest enough to make pretty clear how they intent to "liberate the ancestral lands" and exactly who the
"oppressors" are. Then we might consider joining their struggle, as the liberation from oppression is a universal value. But it appears that all they care for is the defeat of the turkish regime, possibly the rearrangement of borders to the benefit of Greece,
Armenia, Syria -God knows what else- but NOT the liberation from oppression in general. Which would make the freedom fighters (especially the Turkish ones) quite embarassed, as the "evil" is identified with "the Turks" in general. It appears that it is not oppression in general that has to be defeated; it is the "Turkish oppression". But when the desired "liberation" comes, the Turks as a whole being the oppressors, what will be the fate of this "evil nation"? The authors do not bother to provide any answers. It appears not to be their aim to provide such answers, or any other integrated proposal for the international freedom movement...

As for the oppression of the Kurds, the occupation of Cyprus and the policy of the turkish regime to discard the international law whenever they feel appropriate, this site offers a very bad service. Because it is so full of nationalist associations, that the freedom fighters and their supporters will (should) be embarrassed to link their sites to it.

The same fashion is followed in the "epilog" (http://imia.cc.duth.gr/turkey/epil.e.html). Again the Turks as a whole are associated with evil:

<<EPILOG

<<From the incontestable testimony that we presented the conclusion is
<<that the Turks cannot co-exist with other nationalities. Thus Turkey
<<follows systematically a policy of extermination and genocide of other
<<nationalities, for the creation of a <<pure>> national state. This
<<policy is steady and independent of the form of government.

<< [...]

No word about the fact that the 'national state' is not exclusively a turkish policy, but a policy that almost all the regimes of the
previous and the current century, including the Greek ones, have applied. Turkey is indeed a current example, but Greece has been yet another, not so many years ago! The fact that the turkish regime continue to apply violent methods in order to implement this policy is an outcome of the ethnic diversity and the political backwardness of the country, but not a 'proof' of the "evilness of the Turks" or the innocence of 'the rest of us'.

It is sad that self-evident universal rights and values find a so profoundly unilateral and ill-conceived application. Like the way the right of repatriation of the refugees is treated in this site. We read in the "epilog":

<<  [...]
<<It is high time that the whole world should rise and demand the
<<application of human rights to the various enslaved nations of Asia
<<Minor which will include the right of repatriation of refugees to
<<their homes and ancestral lands which belong to them by historical
<<right.
<<  [...]

Who could deny this right? Yet, the whole 'atmosphere' of the text forbids the reader to feel at ease with the intentions of the
authors. Because the same right of repatriation should apply to ALL refugees, like, for example, the slavomacedonians who are still denied repatriation to the Greek part of Macedonia. But, sadly, the Evil is apparently only (and all of) the Turks, and vice versa...

It is true that the authors of the site avoid to redicule themselves by making direct references to nationalist aspirations.  This
might mean that they try to disguise their nationalism by selectively pointing out the negative aspects of the turkish history,
and create an intentional confusion by silently identifying the whole Turkish nation with criminal, or allegedly criminal, persons,
regimes and their activities. Orelse, it might mean that the authors are just confused themselves, but they do not really intend to serve nationalist aspirations. Whichever their intentions are, it remains a fact that their site promotes nationalist hatred. Because telling only half of the truth is not just half of a mistake. It is no better than telling a lie.

Dear friends, nationalism cannot be identified with the cherished value of national liberation. Nationalism does not belong to the freedom movement.  We must discard nationalism and denounce the association of whole nations with the crimes of their regimes. This is not just "political correctness". More important, it seems to me as a primal prerequisite to establish an effective universal movement for freedom, without the burden of national clashes within.

Although it might be true that the case of human rights in Turkey needs a high priority defence (people are massively losing their
lives there, you see) in comparison, say, to Greece or Italy, such sites are not helping.  On the contrary, they serve the defamation of the struggle for human rights, by associating it to nationalist aspirations and nationalist hatred, and by proclaiming, in effect, one single and whole nation -the Turkish one- as a scapegoat for the crimes against humanity, that were performed by the turkish regimes AND their rival regimes, in their effort to establish one-nation-states.

For this reason I join my voice with Serdar, to urge the webmasters of the DUTh to clarify their position concerning the site under consideration. I am sure that the authorities of the DUTh would not like to promote nationalist hatred with their links.

Best regards,

Angelos/Helsinki

"He who didn't share the struggle will share the defeat"
                    Berthold Brecht
 

Aggele,

I will grant you that the pages are not written in a way that it pleases me.  It is true, that the writtings do not clearly distinguish between Turkish governments and Turkish people.  All thought I am not going to defend it, I can clearly understand the frame of mind of those that lost their beloved ones, there homelands, and the right to commemorate them. If it there wasn't such a big effort not only to exterminate them and their families, but even their right to exist even as a memory, we would
have had another approach by them on the issue.  So, when you are looking for people to blame, please be reminded of the above fact.

You do say, and I agree, that there is a distinction to be made between the government and the people.

Well, I dare the participants of this list (please fwd this message) to do so themselves: disassociate themselves from the policy of past Turkish governments that massacre one and a half million Armenians and hundreds of thousands of Greeks of Pontos!  Even if this can be a tricky escape door ('it was not us -- it was the governement operating despite the wishes of the people ...') I will gladly take it!

Sadly, it will not happen my friend.  I dare my neighbors to protest the practices of today's fascist military establishment that runs Turkey, that has packed the prisons with dissidents, that torturted the Kurds, that maintains a 23-year old occupation of Cyprus, that is responsible for the murders of 3 Cypriot civilians last year!

Please, let me see those that distance themselves from this practices. I am not naive.  I do not expect this to be coming from any .tr domain. But it will not come from any non .tr domain either.   So, you my friend expect a clear distinction between Turkish govt. and Turks, while my Turkish friends in the .tr list are not prepared to offer themselves?

Don't you sense a paradox here?

Regards

Stratos

<Please, fwd my message and I would appreciate if any response to it was
copied to me>.

Dear Strato,

thank you for your promt reply, my comment was not directed to you bit it was a general comment to the University of Thrace, nothing to do with the initial or otherwise question. I am not really sure how much you are involved in University of Thrace affairs, I'd rather have a feedback someone from the university if possible, but you seem to have posed yourself as the official spokesperson.  I wanted to ask Moses who is one of the editors of the DUTh web pages whether that's the case, so that we know you are speaking of the official position of the University of Thrace.

I wondered about the university as an Educational institution, its function within Thrace, its relations, studies, etc. regarding the minority. What I have seen so far, organising conferences, their web pages, etc. concentrated on advocating hate of Turks, anything to do with Turks. But why in Thrace, why not somewhere else in another Greek university. Why in Thrace with some 60,000 Turks, (figures from the Greek foreign ministry web pages). What these Turkish minority members like myself suppose to make of this type approach from supposedly educational institution. Is it too much to expect certain discretion if not objectivity. But you and I know the sole purpose of these pages is anti-Turkish propaganda. The type of propaganda that I see in the Hellenic Nationalist Party web pages. But why in Thrace with some 60,000 Turks?

The general attitude of DUTh web pages, as I mentioned in my previous mail, has a very narrow nationalistic view of history and the general facts, as I said they are mainly focused on Greek ethnic identity, religion, evil Turks threatening Greece and Greeks, possibly Thrace. I does not suprise me the fact that there is not a single mention the Minority in
Thrace. In this very nationalistic scope, differing views, especially minorities, especially in this case with Turkish and people with Turkish identity, have no place. You mentioned the list with the ending .tr, as if we who write from this list support the Turkish views or defend the Turkish government. This sounds rather absurd to me, as you and I know I have repeatedly asked University of Thrace for a mailing list, but to no avail. Considering their prejudiced and nationalic approach of this university, I completely understand where they are coming from.

My questions about the minority to the University of Thrace officials still stands. The Duth web pages have completely omitted the minority in Thrace, there seems to be only one mention, the old ancient race of Pomaks. If there are studies on the minority where are they, they seem to be concentrating their work and studies on the 'Turkish Crimes of Our Century'. This type
of approach from an educational, supposedly academical institution I think is deplorable.

As a Turk and Greek citizen I find this nationalistic approach by the University of Thrace offensive, prejudiced and
totally unacceptable. The University of Thrace undermines the rights, sentiments, feelings, ethnic identity of the Turkish citizens of Thrace, like myself and others.

Nihat

9246101t@udcf.gla.ac.uk
http://www.gla.ac.uk/~9246101t/

     To: Multiple recipients of list <thrace@demokritos.cc.duth.gr>
     Subject: Again, on Democritos U of Thrace ...
     From: "Stratos P. Safioleas" <safiol@SEAS.GWU.EDU>
     Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 19:38:44 +0300

Dear Nihat:

But of course I am the official spokesperson.  After all, why am I paid all these money? :)))

Ok, I have subscribed to the list so I do not have to trouble every single person to fwd my responses here.  I am sorry that I am posting without sensing the list a bit more, but I guess I will in the next few days.

Now, going back to subject.  Nihat, I am not sure how do you manage to bundle two unrelated issues into one.  This does not serve either of the two.

The question that we have here, is wether a page that mentions among other things the genocides of the Armenians and the Pontian Greeks, the pogrom of 1955 and the plight of the Greeks in Imvros, Tenedos, and Costantinopolis, is offensive!

Still I have seen no response to that!

Now, do you want to relate this to the position of the University towards the minority?  I think this is a very important issue to approach it in such a manner.

I think Moses should not grant an answer to those that ask questions with such a frame of mind, I mean those that cry over the political correctness of the Armenian genocide web page.  It is quite obvious that he is NOT the author of the page.  As I have said in the past, the page comes from a Book called "The Turkish Crime of our Century", which I do have.  Moses is
not the ... author of the book :)

On the other hand, Moses has paid a price in the past, when the University came under attack from nationalists in Greece, so your assertions are unfounded.  I am not going to answer for Moses.  My involvement in this bru-ha-ha comes from the fact that I have studied for 5 and a half years in Xanthi, and I have made a lot of friends, that I happen to know
very well where the are politically.  Calling the Dem. U of Thrace a nationalist University, would have really been funny, if it wasn't such a sad distortion of reality ...  I could go on that with figures on the elections in the University, but I do think I need to.

Anyway, the only issue that I find relevant to discuss under this subject for now, is wether the infamous page can be hosted in DUTH.

I have responded to Angelos comments which are very thoughtful, and bear some validity.  I do not know if my posting appeared here, so I will fwd it again.

Regards

Stratos

Demokritos University of Thrace (DUTh) appears to have been involved in a fierce anti-Turkish propaganda war. DUTh  web pages located at http://imia.cc.duth.gr/ , appear to have the sole purpose  of to propagate a jingoistic view of history. These pages appear to be the work of the Asia Minor Refugees Coordination Committee, with no further details given.  Is this research group based in Demokritos University of Thrace or they are just purely a front for this jingoistic history, a register of crimes seen through a tinted glass of nationalism.
 
In these pages an obvious demonisation and dehumanisation of Turks is taking place. They are the Mongolic barbarians;  an uncivilised race; descended from the mountains of Mongolia, bringing savagery and destruction to Europe. Their biggest crime was the invasion of Constantinople for which history certainly will not forgive them.  This is the time when civilisation ended or so they would have you believe. Turks besides being barbarous and an inherently violent race, also happen to be Muslims. Islam, a religion of the dark ages,  which promotes violence: a centuries old threat to the civilised world. Turks and Islam, you could not find a worst combination in the history of humanity. This Turkish-Islamic race set out to undermine the whole of civilisation  and build a new world order based on backwardness, exploitation, degradation and violence.

Demokritos University of Thrace, as an educational institution is taking its duty in this particular case very seriously. It is only right to warn the civilised world of the impending danger of Mongolic Turkish -Muslims. Something that the Demokritos University is doing to the best of their abilities.
 
The page on 'Thrace of Hellas - A Short History ( http://www.duth.gr/Thrace/thrace.html  ) apparently written by A. Bakalidis we find out that:

"Unfortunately progress is abruptly halted by the Othoman Turks invasion, the allure of Constantinople (1453 AD) and the violent en-muslism of entire areas.  Thrace then has a dark period of Turkish occupation where nothing worth mentioning ever happens. After all, the land was too close to the Capital of the Othoman Empire (now called Istanbul so as not to remind of the old glorious city that the Turks had destroyed)."

How the present day Greeks of Thrace survived this 'violent en-muslism' one wonders.  What in fact had happened to the Greeks who become Muslims during that period? This can be found out in the Travelogue Xanthi area (http://www.duth.gr/gr/od/od2.html). The text in Greek reads:

"The Pomaks who were formerly Christian (violently and because of need, forced to become Muslims 200 to 300 years ago) all along wanted to be incorporated into Greek society. We the petit bourgeois, treated them with disdain, as we disregard the other Hellenic provinces in order to become Athenians. And for this, perhaps soon, there is going to be a high price to pay". ("Oi Pomakoi proin Xristianoi (exislamistikan eneka ths bias kai tis anankis prin 200 me 300 xronia) hthelan anekathen na ensomatothoun stin Ellinikh koinonia. Emeis oi arxontoxoriates tous perifronisame opos perifronisame oli tin Elliniki eparxia gia na ginoume Athinaioi. Kai auto pithanon sintomos na plirothie me timima megalo."  )
 

The traveller finds the Pomaks blond, blue eyed and white skinned. This certainly excludes them from being Turks. However Pomaks,  diligent, hospitable people, who cross their bread and make offerings to The Virgin Mary, cannot be Slavs either. There is an obvious question that comes to mind, how could Pomaks be Greeks? Blue eyes, white skin and blond; these characteristics are not at all common in Greece. This is not the Mediterranean dark look  we are familiar with. Well my suggestion to this riddle is they are in fact Scandinavians.

But what about the Turks in Thrace? Is Greece harbouring barbarous Turks inside the country? This minority in fact is not a Turkish Minority but a Muslim one. Just a tiny fraction of them happen to be Turks, who are manipulated by Turkish propaganda and claimTurkish ethnic identity. You can rest assured, although they are Muslims, they are not as dangerous as the rest of the Turks. At least they played no part in the atrocities committed by Turkey.  As Apostolos Kaklamanis, President of the Greek Parliament reassures and calms the heightened spirits:

 "The muslim minority has no responsibility for the genocides committed by Turkey in the first part of the century" (Macedonian News Agency, 19/06/97).
 
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Nihat Tsolak