From russellbell at gmail.com Sat Oct 2 06:03:16 2021
From: russellbell at gmail.com (russellbell at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2021 07:03:16 -0600
Subject: [joe-frank-list] 'A pact with god'
Message-ID: <202110021303.192D3GqK023560@randytool.net>
Over the sound of a film projector Joe narrates an account of
his parents' gated senior community, The Fountains (apparently Lake
Worth, Florida); he's visiting: golf courses, tennis courts (rarely
used), golf carts, guard at the gates, fence and moat. Occasionally
an alligator emerges from the moat, the second-most popular topic of
discussion after the deaths and disabilities of other residents.
3:00: The women, in their 60s and 70s, look so alike Joe can't
pick her out at a luncheon, finally has to ask the chairwoman of the
luncheon committee.
4:50: Joe describes his stepfather, Freddy, shopping at the
drug store, stooped over, worn clothes, buying items with coupons. He
grew up in a poor household (on Morris Avenue in the Bronx), retains
frugal habits.
9:50: They took a trip to Switzerland on the cheapest charter
flight, with a bunch of rowdy students, fell on the escalator in the
airport, injured themselves.
11:00: His mother serves soup boiling hot so they hold off
eating it, but give in. They make a racket while eating, accumulate
crumbs on their faces; it embarrasses Joe.
14:10: Freddy uses the after-dinner coffee to begin washing
out the food stuck between his teeth; then they both use toothpicks.
Joe looks away - 'I look out a window at a tree and the sky beyond; it
gives me a feeling of relief, takes me away from this room and these 2
old people whom I love, but sometimes drive me crazy.'
15:00: Freddy wants to wash the dishes, but Joe's mother won't
let him because he's slow.
15:30: Joe's mother complains about Freddy's disorganization,
forgetfulness, watching of 'crap on television', leaving out the cat
food overnight so it'll be warm in the morning. He walks around nude;
she wishes he wouldn't. He eats a fortune cookie without taking out
the fortune.
16:10: 'I go diving off the coast...' Joe tells of going scuba
diving, so deep it's dark and he experiences nitrogen narcosis, 'the
rapture of the deep' (I assume this is fictional.)
18:40: (Sound of a loud automobile engine) Joe drives on a
country road, counts telephone poles, imagines that, when he reaches
59 'the year in his life that he died', he'll careen into the 59th
pole. (Joe's father died at 56.)
19:30: 'And I love those tropical storms...' 'I think of the
thunder as the voice of my father'.
20:40: Joe's mother comes home from a Jessye Norman concert,
angry at how badly the audience behaved. The audience left in such a
hurry some suffered injuries.
(https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/30/obituaries/jessye-norman-dead.html)
22:10: Joe describes the depredations of age upon them.
25:10: Joe tells the story of Conrad, Freddy's friend, a
successful businessman, as well as handsome, charming, and a good
golfer. An injury while diving afflicted him with Pick's Disease
(Doesn't sound like it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frontotemporal_dementia), which hampers,
then destroys his mental function, results in early death.
28:20: She becomes less tactful with age, tells Joe, who has
gained weight, that his breasts look like a 14-year-old girl's. She
describes being fondled by one of her parents friends when she was a
girl. She's begun to rub her thighs unconsciously.
30:50: They look through files of old photos; Joe finds the
pictures of her as a young girl particularly moving. 'An unhappy love
affair with a young man followed by a difficult marriage to a much
older man.' They moved to Germany where he had his business, had a
crippled son. He died in a car accident caused by a stroke. Her
second marriage began romantically, turned bitter. 'The failure of
the family business and the comfortable retirement in Florida living
on the money they received from German reparations after the war and
invested wisely.' (Langerman Shoe was still in business in the '70s.)
33:00: She remembers her family's escape from the Russian army
when she was 3 or 4. (Quoth Wikipedia, 'after the outbreak of World
War I the town (Ryman?w, her hometown) was captured by the Russian
Empire in September 1914 and severely looted. The spa pavillons were
burnt to the ground and the town suffered from several weeks of
Russian rule. In 1915 it was again retaken by Austria-Hungary and
started to be rebuilt.' She was 3 years, 9 months.)
33:50: Her mother told her she had wanted an abortion instead
of bearing her.
34:10: She falsely claimed that she was sexually experienced
to her fianc?.
34:40: She tells of Kristallnacht, fleeing Vienna by train.
35:30: She tells of her 2 favorite songs when she was a young
woman, 'The wanderer' and 'I came as a stranger and I left as a
stranger', how they express her feeling of being a stranger in the
world. (They're both by Schubert; the latter is 'Gute nacht', the
first song in 'Die Winterreise'; she called it by its opening lines.
Can't go wrong with Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR8_n-B8qu0 (Wanderer) and
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0Rry-ahcHM (Winterreise).)
36:00: Her stories of her early life are 'like a religious
experience' to Joe, 'It's my foundation, it's where I came from, and I
never tire of listening to it.'
37:20: Joe repeats the account of scuba diving originally at
16:10, and the 2 following segments.
40:00: Joe recounts Freddy's bouts with cancer.
41:20: The day before Freddy's surgery, Joe makes a pact with
god, that, if Joe runs this particular route all the way, Freddy's
tumor will be benign. He gets lost, has to give up running, feels he
has failed, that he has left Freddy up to god's mercy.
49:20: Joe takes 1&1/2 valium the night before the surgery.
He wonders what his mother would do if Freddy dies, they having lived
together the last 40 years. (They married in 1945, which would date
this story to about 1985.)
51:50: The growth is a melanoma, but it hasn't spread, so it
may not be serious. He seems to have recovered well. (He died in
1995.)
55:50: Joe repeats the account of scuba diving originally at
16:10, and the 2 following segments.
http://jfwiki.org/index.php?title=A_Pact_With_God
'A death in the family' has the same words, different music.
Joe re-used much of this material in 'Too close to home'.
russell bell
From russellbell at gmail.com Wed Oct 6 06:04:15 2021
From: russellbell at gmail.com (russellbell at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2021 07:04:15 -0600
Subject: [joe-frank-list] 'Tell me what to do'
Message-ID: <202110061304.196D4FKq020516@randytool.net>
'Kakashi' (Aragon)
0:30: A new employee (unnamed, I call her 'she' - mid-30s)
comes into her boss's office (also unnamed, I call him 'he') after
work, chats him up, perhaps flirts with him. She moved to New York
after having a good job in San Juan, Puerto Rico, to have a
relationship with an Australian man, Jeremy. She's considering taking
a job in Chicago. He invites her for a drink. She chain-smokes
Merits. She wears a hat, raincoat, thick glasses; he wears dark
glasses. He wants to take her to a hotel; she demurs. He's married.
4:20: 'She told him the following day she'd be moving her
clothes books and records into a friend's apartment.'
5:00: He calls her around noon the next day, asks himself to
her apartment (in the east 70s). They drink and smoke. He wants to
make love; she doesn't have the time. They neck. He falls for her.
8:00: 'Turtle dreams' (Meredith Monk)
8:30: 'The air smells of candle wax, ancient stones; there's
an aftertaste of wine and wafer in the air; every sound made by
movement is reflected from the surface, whether from a floor, a stone
wall, or a devotional niche.'
8:50: Joe recites opening lines of 'Chicago' (Carl Sandburg)
9:00: 'At the main altar images of Christ and the Apostles,
the dry rustle of devotional books and hymnals in the hands of the
faithful - and tall gothic windows lights lighting with multicolored
beams of the stained-glass images of the saints'
9:20: More from Sandburg's 'Chicago'.
9:30: 'Dark curtained confessional booths from which soulful
murmurings can be faintly heard; the pews are of dark mahogany; there
are well-worn velvet cushions.'
9:40: More from Sandburg's 'Chicago': 'they tell you are
wicked and I believe them...'
10:10: They neck for 15 minutes, then they get up and go.
Walking home he suspects the ease of her passion means she's easy.
10:50: At work that evening (apparently they work at night) he
can't think of anything but her. When she shows up, he leaves a card
inviting her for a drink after work; she accepts. She tells him more
about Jeremy, a divorc? with 2 children; he's passed out drunk at the
bar - she points him out. She says she thinks she'd make a good
whore. He thinks otherwise.
13:00: Jeremy's going to Copenhagen for a week; his wife,
Barbara will visit her sister in Ohio that week. He invites her over.
They make love. He worries the neighbors will notice her, hear the
sounds she makes. The make love all night. She asks him to tell her
what to do.
17:10: 'A cavernous stone interior almost like Jonah's view of
the whale; eyeless stony saints gazing sightless over the heads of
worshippers larger than life - if they ever did live.'
17:30: More from Sandburg's 'Chicago': 'And they tell me you
are brutal...'
18:20: 'The muted swirl of priestly garments, the labored
breathing of the stricken devoted, uttering prayers heard in God's ear
only'
19:40: In the morning he worries that neighbors will notice
her leaving, so he checks the hall, sends her out alone, leaves a few
minutes later and meets her on the street. Looking back over the
night, he remembers how she meekly took orders, did everything she
asked, said 'Yes, sir'.
22:10: He sees her next at work, wearing tight jeans and
blouse; other men notice her - he's jealous. She has friends
visiting, may not be available that night. A friend of his wife, Lila
(extremely attractive) calls, reminding him of their dinner date,
which he had forgotten. He invites Lila over to the office to make
her jealous.
26:00: He and Lila have dinner at her place. She calls while
Lila is there; she puts him off. She comes over, buzzes. He has to
get Lila out without seeing her. He imagines all the trouble she
could cause him. They talk about her future, her relationship with
Jeremy, the job in Chicago.
30: 'Statues depicting men holding loaves or fishes or
grasping shepherds' crooks or gathering sheaves; in the windows
St. Francis among the animals, St. Christopher comforting the solitary
wayfarer; Jesus as a shepherd, a carpenter, a healer, a miracle
worker, as the prince of heaven in glorious splendor, as a tormented
mortal shouldering the sins of all humanity, as a babe in a manger,
and - in his passion - on the cross.'
32:20: More from Sandburg's 'Chicago': 'Laughing the stormy,
husky, brawling laughter of Youth...'
33:10: They slept until morning. He has trouble waking her.
She's petulant. They arrange a similar drill for departure, but he
can't find her.
35:00: He goes to a luncheonette on Broadway and 79th because
he knows her apartment is 2 blocks away. He calls her from a pay
phone, leaves a message. (The answering machine message is Jeremy's,
but she moved out to a friend's.)
35:50: They go out for a drink after work that night, dance to
the jukebox. She wants to go out on a 'real' date Friday night, but
doesn't show. He calls after work, gets mad at her, regrets it, asks
her to breakfast, which they have at Teacher's, 'a chi-chi west side
bar'. They go to his place.
41:00: She tells him that her stepfather in Chicago abused
her, why she's ambivalent about taking the new job. She's scared of
running into him. They make love.
42:50: He picks up his wife at the airport.
43:30: 'Teami no Onpu' (Aragon)
43:50: They go to a bar after work; she has to return to
Jeremy, he to Barbara. They know it's over. They dance to the
jukebox.
46:50: 2 weeks later Jeremy proposes; she accepts.
48:20: She calls again next week: she and Jeremy will move to
Chicago.
49:10: 'Turtle dreams' (Meredith Monk)
50:10: 'The groom, tall, nervous, wears a morning coat,
striped pants, spats, white tie, attended by formally dressed best
men; their manner is grave and reserved, their motions slow and
deliberate and purposeful; the bride, slender, in old lace, a long
train of Victorian gossamer, her face veiled; the bridesmaids attend
her in pastel gowns; one of the girls clutches a handkerchief in her
left hand; the priest in satin and brought cloth, a bishop's mitre on
his head, the purple velvet surplice beneath his gown occasionally
glinting in the filtered light of the stained glass windows now
reflecting purple then red, then green, and now blue. He says,
"Dearly beloved, heaven has brought together this couple with the
purpose of holy matrimony; may their union be blessed and fruitful in
the eyes of the lord."'
https://jfwiki.org/index.php?title=Tell_Me_What_To_Do
Joe tells the story of an affair, interspersed with a
description of a church, finally of a wedding, possibly in that
church. I quoted those portions in full, hoping that I would find a
source, but didn't.
At 4:20 she moved to a friend's; later in the story she's
still living with Jeremy.
russell bell
From russellbell at gmail.com Sun Oct 24 10:35:06 2021
From: russellbell at gmail.com (russellbell at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2021 11:35:06 -0600
Subject: [joe-frank-list] the German in 'Dreams of the river'
Message-ID: <202110241735.19OHZ6fk003290@randytool.net>
A woman's voice speaks in German at about 1:20, 24:30, 46:20,
55:00. Has anyone transcribed it? translated it?
russell bell
From ned at stromkern.com Mon Oct 25 00:08:18 2021
From: ned at stromkern.com (professor ned)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 09:08:18 +0200
Subject: [joe-frank-list] the German in 'Dreams of the river'
In-Reply-To: <202110241735.19OHZ6fk003290@randytool.net>
References: <202110241735.19OHZ6fk003290@randytool.net>
Message-ID: <25727E22-7979-49E4-A589-3E53333610F2@stromkern.com>
> On Oct 24, 2021, at 7:35 PM, russellbell at gmail.com wrote:
>
> A woman's voice speaks in German at about 1:20, 24:30, 46:20,
> 55:00. Has anyone transcribed it? translated it?
Warning: I?m not a native speaker.
at 1:20:
"Liebling? bitte nicht so?ich wollte ganz nah bei dir sein, bitte...bitte k?? mich noch einmal, bitte?so... jetzt kann ich deine W?rme f?hlen?ich m?chte bei dir bleiben?geh? nicht von mir weg? halt mich ganz fest... bitte?? [becomes indistinct]
at 24:30: more of the same, with some additional bits (?nehm? mich so, so??, etc.) but difficult to make out under the main text
at 46:20:
??ich sch?me mich nicht, ich hab? kein Gef?hl von Schande, nur Erschrecken?ich bin erschrocken, wie du das gesagt hast?so ein ganz tief Erschrecken ist in mir?ist das Liebe, glaubst du, der Schrecken? die Sehnsucht? das Gef?hl, das ich hab', dass ich in hinein schmelzen will? ich will aufgehen in dir, nicht mehr Ich sein, sondern Du werden?
Ich f?hl? so eine Sehnsucht, so eine wilde Sehnsucht, dass du mich?dass du mich walten sollst, dass du mich schlagen sollst, mir wehtun sollst, in mich hinein dr?ngen sollst?das muss Liebe sein?ich liebe dich, ja, ja, tut?s noch einmal, mehr, mehr? lass? mich nicht los? lass? mich nicht?
Du, bist du mein Geliebter? Willst du mein Geliebter sein? Kannst Du mich so anfassen, so, so deine Zunge, sie ist ganz heiss, und rau? Du? das ist so wie ein Tier, so, mit du das von meinen Hals hinunter leckst, ich f?hl?s, ich kann's f?hlen, ganz in meiner Seele, innen, innen?
So?kannst du f?hlen wie meine Haut hei? ist? Bist du erschrocken? Ich bin?s auch?aber ich sch?me mich nicht, ich bereue es nicht, ich kann es nicht bereuen, ich f?hl' dich ?berall? immer? auf ewig, ich werde dich nie vergessen, nie, ich will dein Eindruck behalten, deine Schenkel, deine Muskeln, deine Knochen...deine H?rte, deine Futt?deine Z?hne, oh, wie sie bei?en, wie sie hei? und schrecklich auf meinen Achseln zucken?
Geliebte, noch mehr, mehr, halt? mich so, und sag? mir, dass du mich liebst, sag? mir, dass ich die einzige sein werde, f?r immer, immer?mein Geliebte?jetzt wein? ich auch, jetzt kommen mir die Tr?nen?" [fades out]
At 55:00
??ich f?hle dich? nicht so, noch mehr, noch mehr, du kannst n?her sein, mich so nehmen? z?rtlich, und wild, und w?tend! Schrecklich?
?
DeepL <https://www.deepl.com/> will give you a decent translation. Futt is a regional variant of Popo.
ned
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From russellbell at gmail.com Tue Oct 26 05:53:17 2021
From: russellbell at gmail.com (russellbell at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 06:53:17 -0600
Subject: [joe-frank-list] the German in 'Dreams of the river'
Message-ID: <202110261253.19QCrHoC031280@randytool.net>
Thanks, Professor Ned! You're a star. It looks like sweet
nothings to me. I have speculated that Joe clipped it from a German
film, perhaps soft-core porn. 2 in the German subreddit tell me it's
an Austrian accent. Is 'futt' Austrian?
Armory bungles attachments: it translates < into < , > into
< , inserts unnecessary " , sometimes turns & into & (as
in turning into &nbsp;) - does anyone know how to fix this?
Whom to contact?
Here's DeepL's translation:
"...I'm not ashamed, I have no feeling of shame, only fright...I'm
frightened, as you said...such a very deep fright is in me...is that
love, do you think, the fright? the longing? the feeling I have that I
want to melt into you...I want to merge into you, no longer be me, but
become you....
I feel such a longing, such a wild longing, that you should...that you
should rule me, that you should hit me, hurt me, push into me...this
must be love...I love you, yes, yes, do it again, more, more...don't
let me go...don't let me....
You, are you my lover? Do you want to be my lover? Can you touch me
like this, like this, your tongue, it's all hot, and
rough... You... it's like an animal, like this, with you licking it
down my neck, I feel it, I can feel it, all inside my soul, inside,
inside....
So...can you feel how hot my skin is? Are you scared? I am too...but
I'm not ashamed, I don't regret it, I can't regret it, I feel you
everywhere...always...forever, I'll never forget you, never, I want to
keep your impression, your thighs, your muscles, your bones...your
hardness, your butt...your teeth, oh, how they bite, how they twitch
hot and terrible on my armpits....
Lover, more, more, hold me like this, and tell me that you love me,
tell me that I'll be the only one, forever, always...my lover...now
I'm crying too, now the tears are coming....
russell bell
From ned at stromkern.com Tue Oct 26 06:03:43 2021
From: ned at stromkern.com (professor ned)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2021 15:03:43 +0200
Subject: [joe-frank-list] the German in 'Dreams of the river'
In-Reply-To: <202110261253.19QCrHoC031280@randytool.net>
References: <202110261253.19QCrHoC031280@randytool.net>
Message-ID: <EAE47B4A-F569-4A58-96C6-E6211AD8174F@stromkern.com>
> On Oct 26, 2021, at 2:53 PM, russellbell at gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> 2 in the German subreddit tell me it?s an Austrian accent. Is 'futt' Austrian?
I?ve never encountered it in the wild myself; research suggests it is Rheinisch, which is def. not Austrian, but maybe the Redditors can confirm/deny?
The speaker's accent certainly sounds Austro-Bavarian to me.
> ...your teeth, oh, how they bite, how they twitch
> hot and terrible on my armpits?.
DeepL breaks down here; ?Achsel? is probably better translated with ?shoulder? in this context, and ?zucken? maybe more like ?jerk? or ?quiver?.
But anyways, yes, just sweet nothings.
ned
From russellbell at gmail.com Wed Oct 27 04:50:55 2021
From: russellbell at gmail.com (russellbell at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2021 05:50:55 -0600
Subject: [joe-frank-list] the German in 'Dreams of the river'
Message-ID: <202110271150.19RBotLj006827@randytool.net>
Quoth Professor Ned: 'I've never encountered it [die Futt] in
the wild myself; research suggests it is Rheinisch, which is def. not
Austrian, but maybe the Redditors can confirm/deny?'
Redditor Klapperatismus wrote, 'die Futt -- cunt (Austrian) ,
der Fott / der Futt -- ass (Rhenish)' de.wiktionary doesn't have it.
So it's 'deine Futt' - 'your cunt'? If it's a woman talking
to a man, not what I expected.
Klapperatismus and another Redditor both volunteered that the
voice sounds like a male falsetto.
Joe credits no other actors in 'Dreams of the river'. I
speculate that he took this from a German (perhaps Austrian) soft-core
porn movie, may have not understood exactly what was going on.
russell bell
From ned at stromkern.com Wed Oct 27 13:09:26 2021
From: ned at stromkern.com (professor ned)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2021 21:09:26 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [joe-frank-list] the German in 'Dreams of the river'
In-Reply-To: <202110271150.19RBotLj006827@randytool.net>
References: <202110271150.19RBotLj006827@randytool.net>
Message-ID: <1004411125.166616.1635365366738@email.ionos.co.uk>
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From russellbell at gmail.com Fri Oct 29 08:19:41 2021
From: russellbell at gmail.com (russellbell at gmail.com)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2021 09:19:41 -0600
Subject: [joe-frank-list] the German in 'Dreams of the river'
Message-ID: <202110291519.19TFJfEY009874@randytool.net>
Russell Bell: 'it's "deine Futt" - "your cunt"?'
Professor Ned: 'Strikes me as unlikely - given what she says
immediately prior ("deiner H?rte" is quite unambiguous).'
You wrote "deine H?rte" the other day. Hardness is
unambiguous? You mean it refers to a penis?
Professor Ned: 'FWIW voice sounds female to me.'
I thought that, but we're primed to think that because he
refers to the speaker as she & her. 2 separate German speakers in 2
separate threads independently volunteered the opinion that the
speaker is a man. It didn't occur to me before that.
https://old.reddit.com/r/German/comments/nqdz3i/the_last_3_minutes_of_joe_franks_fat_man_down/
https://old.reddit.com/r/German/comments/qfy27l/the_german_in_joe_franks_dreams_of_the_river/
I invite the teeming masses of the Joe Frank Mailing List to
listen for themselves, tell us what they think:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SvlYxv3O4Kag35iEE3mP9lIRJEH5W7RF/view?usp=sharing
Professor Ned: 'My sense was that Joe had passive command of
German (I have no evidence of this, just speculation)'
His birth parents, maternal grandmother (who moved to the US
with them), aunts and uncles were German speakers, so it wouldn't
surprise me. On the other hand he shows no sign of knowing it in his
shows. His family was treated badly by German-speakers, may have made
a point of rejecting it.
Professor Ned: 'In terms of audio quality it sounds a piece
with the rest of the episode - would guess he had someone read it in
the studio.'
In terms of technical quality, I won't argue, but I think its
character is different. It's a big part to go uncredited. Uncle Ben
had 4 daughters. The oldest, (Eva, born 1934) visited Joe in 'Karma
Crash'.
russell bel
From russellbell at gmail.com Sun Oct 31 08:26:25 2021
From: russellbell at gmail.com (russellbell at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2021 09:26:25 -0600
Subject: [joe-frank-list] the German in 'Just get me out of here'
Message-ID: <202110311526.19VFQPrW020375@randytool.net>
It begins about 52:30, lasts for 3:30. It has Judith Owen's
beautiful vocalizing over it. You can find a clip at
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JrWebseSUyV55VjXZ8LeUHn7WnD2M-Av/view?usp=sharing
The words aren't the same; I don't know that the voice is the same.
It begins 'Ich liebe dich' so sounds like similar content.
russell bell