From shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu Sun May 1 00:11:38 2005
From: shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erik Shirokoff)
Date: Sun May 1 00:11:02 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
In-Reply-To: <2dbaf4d80504301824ac49f5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8C71BF0E02505E3-B4C-24EDB@mblk-r24.sysops.aol.com>
<003301c54de1$b989e6d0$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
<2dbaf4d80504301824ac49f5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20050501071138.GA9087@jabberwock.hopto.org>
A discussion about this did come up a couple years back on this list. I'll attach a copy of the thread below. (There are occasionally advantages to never deleting an email message.) Since it was all posted to a public list, I don't see any reason not to re-post it.
None of the ideas put forward so far are terribly convincing. Zeta Jones seems plausible, but the short, fat Vietnamese woman seems just as likely to me. If it is Zeta Jones, I'm sure it will find its way into a biography one day.
As far as the timeline goes, it's tough to be sure of dates. There are certainly references to things happening in the present tense, however it isn't clear that all of that material was recorded in 1999. One can't be sure, but it seems unlikely to me that any of it pre-dates the end of Somewhere Out There in mid 1997. The karma series ran from April to October 2000. We can probably assume most of it happened somewhere in that three year period.
I'm so bad at remembering names and so disinterested in most celebrity news that the chances of me guessing the answer are pretty small. But I'll certainly be interested if anyone comes up with a good fit.
- Erik
-------------- previous Kate speculation follows -------------------
From: Geekgodis@aol.com
Message-ID: <f.2d9cfb5.2b1032b3@aol.com>
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 20:24:03 EST
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Real people?
The programs about a guy breaking-up with Kate, are now being aired in my
area, NYC. This is the first time that I don't like either of the characters.
I wouldn't want to be around them. Just think that they're shallow and self
absorbed, and I don't think Joe meant people to feel that way about them.
Still, it bothers me to hear how conflicted, frustrated and sad they both
feel about the end of the relationship. Eric called it "biographical"; is it
really about Joe Frank and Kate?
Annett?
(this accent should give me some class)
------------------
From: "The Apollo God" <theapollogod@earthlink.net>
To: <joe-frank-list@dcms.com>
References: <f.2d9cfb5.2b1032b3@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Real people?
As far as I know the Kate era, mostly the Karma series, is actually quite
biographical. Somewhere Joe speaks of this and how he still cares for Kate.
Any ideas on who Kate is? If the show is true, she is an actress from Wales
who landed a role in a police drama. You guys tell me who you think she is
and then I'll tell you who I think she is.
Apollo
------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 19:51:51 -0500
From: David Gutierrez <dave@3113.com>
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Real people?
To: joe-frank-list@dcms.com
>Any ideas on who Kate is? If the show is true, she is an actress from Wales
>who landed a role in a police drama. You guys tell me who you think she is
>and then I'll tell you who I think she is.
>
>
I have no ideas, but I've always wanted to know. Does anyone have ideas?
Dave
------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 17:46:20 -0800 (PST)
From: tewoodruff <tewoodruff@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Real people?
To: daveg@post1.com, joe-frank-list@dcms.com
In-Reply-To: <3DE022A7.7010108@3113.com>
It's a longshot but...
Catherine Zeta-Jones is from Wales and moved to L.A.
in her twenties to further her acting career.
Of course she's a little young, but... is Joe any
older than Michael Douglas?
If she isn't Kate, maybe she's the young girl that
fixed his pajamas. heh, heh...
T-Wo
---------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 10:29:31 -0500
From: Parker70400@aol.com
To: tewoodruff@yahoo.com, daveg@post1.com, joe-frank-list@dcms.com
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Real people?
For some reason, I always thought it might be Cate Blanchette...
---------------------
From: "The Apollo God" <theapollogod@earthlink.net>
To: <joe-frank-list@dcms.com>
References: <20021124014620.87340.qmail@web40304.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Real people?
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:18:06 -0800
I think you're right about Zeta-Jones. That's who I always thought it was.
Also, Joe Frank was in "The Game," starring Michael Douglas. Another thing,
Larry Block played a doorman in "Don't Say A Word." So you've got Joe and
Larry in Michael Douglas movies. There's got to be some connection. I
think Joe is Michael's friend or something. So Catherine Zeta-Jones fits
the profile and there's that connection with Michael Douglas and Joe Frank.
But that's me, I could be wrong, maybe it's a terrible tragedy.
Apollo
-----------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 06:03:48 -0500
From: David Gutierrez <daveg@post1.com>
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Real people?
To: joe-frank-list@dcms.com
Message-id: <3DE20394.8010101@post1.com>
Just two things I'd like to bring up in response to this:
1) What is the police drama? Here is her filmography:
http://us.imdb.com/Name?Zeta-Jones,+Catherine -- I can't quite figure it
out.
2) Wasn't Zeta-Jones already famous by '98/'99, when the Karma series
aired? In the show, Joe mentions that she is getting paid something like
$200,000 for her role in this police drama. That seems amazingly low for
her if she was already famous by that time.
--------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 06:22:49 -0800 (PST)
From: tewoodruff <tewoodruff@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Real people?
To: David Gutierrez <daveg@post1.com>, joe-frank-list@dcms.com
Good question.
Anyway, a Maxim magazine interview in '98 said she was
dating "a novelist." Not totally inconsistent,
assuming she didn't want to elaborate on the subject.
------------------------
From: "Alexander Antoniades" <sander@antoniades.com>
To: <joe-frank-list@dcms.com>
References: <20021125142249.56420.qmail@web40306.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Real people?
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 14:07:46 -0500
Anyone looking for Kate's identity should keep in mind that according to the
Karma show where Joe ruminates on Kate's new lovers, he says that the
screenwriter in his early thirties would be ten years younger than Kate.
This makes her an aspiring starlet in her early 40s. Plus I'd like to think
that Joe would have better taste than to date a cell-phone-hawking-no-talent
like the current Mrs. Douglas, but that's a person preferance.
I think you have to take a grain of salt when trying to decipher what's real
and what's not in Joe's work. While I'm sure there's a lot of truth in the
Karma series, there are no doubt fanciful elements as well.
It's much safer to try and speculate who was the "well known" actress that
Larry Block had an affair with in the 70s. Was it Blair Brown or Linda
Lavin?
Sander
--------------------------
From: "The Apollo God" <theapollogod@earthlink.net>
To: <joe-frank-list@dcms.com>
References: <20021124014620.87340.qmail@web40304.mail.yahoo.com> <001b01c29428$e470b6f0$2a15fea9@jasmine> <3DE20394.8010101@post1.com>
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Real people?
1) I think the police drama was Entrapment. Some may say that it was =
not a police drama. Well, I would say there is some room for =
embellishment. She was, according to Joe Frank, paid over $400,000. =20
2) The timeline could of course be skewed. Also, for all we know, the =
Karma series could have been recollections of a past relationship. We =
don't know if he put together each episode about Kate as the events =
transpired. Even if he made mention to working on this "very program =
that you're listening to," this is still part of the script.
3) I would like to note that nobody is saying that Zeta-Jones is Kate. =
I'm simply saying I think it's interesting to look at some of the =
similarities. Kate may not exist. If she does, her name may not be =
Kate. The Michael Douglas connection could be complete coincidence. I =
did say I could be wrong.
Apollo
From steve at theavocadopapers.com Sun May 1 00:49:25 2005
From: steve at theavocadopapers.com (Steve Schneider)
Date: Sun May 1 00:49:56 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
In-Reply-To: <2dbaf4d80504301824ac49f5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001401c54e22$4f3a42c0$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
Well -- I guess I should qualify what I said about my uneasiness
referring to Joe Frank as "Joe": I realize that it's a convention on
lists like these to refer to the subject of the list by his or her first
name, and that that doesn't necessarily imply a familiarity that isn't
there. So I don't mean to suggest that anyone on this list is doing
that. Maybe it's particularly tricky with a "subject" such as J.F.,
since one might be inclined after listening to dozens and dozens of his
shows -- and particularly Karma-like shows -- to think that one "knows"
him, since the shows are, at least seemingly, so personal in nature.
Anyway: Kate: anyone? No takers? K, whether there are or not, here's
another question to ponder, and it doesn't require speculation about
someone's personal life: what do you think is J.F.'s feeling about Jack
Kornfield? As far as I know -- and I could be wrong -- J.K.'s first
appearance on a J.F. show is in the first Karma program. I SWEAR that
J.F. put a laugh track over that first appearance (yes, there is often
audience laughter in K's segments, but this was more overt, and the
laughter was at particularly inappropriate moments), and I proceeded,
through a few more Karma shows, to think that J.F. had included the J.K.
"reflections" as an example of a futile worldview. But that doesn't
seem to be the case at all.
The only time I've even ever heard J.F. refer to the J.K. segments was
in an interview: he says something about his shows being "religious" in
the sense that it contrasts the sacred and the profane (note: that's a
paraphrase). With the sacred represented by Kornfield's lectures and
the profane represented by "normal" people such as J.F., Debi Mae West,
and L. Block just dealing with life's struggles as best they can. I
have to say, personally, that I find the Kornfield lectures to be my
least favorite parts of the shows in which they appear; I hesitate,
though, to fast-forward through them because the artist who created
these shows put them there and I feel that I should therefore listen to
them. But I find the other stuff -- the phone calls with L.B., D.M.W.,
J.F.'s mother, D. Rafkin, and others; the first-person narrations of the
latest Kate drama; the reminiscences of things like the NYC blackout;
etc. -- to be much more entertaining, interesting, enlightening,
relevant, etc.
Would love to know others' thoughts on this topic. And the Kate topic.
Call me a gossip-monger; I don't think I am being one (although I will
admit to a certain amount of gut-level curiosity).
-- Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
[mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold Johnson
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:25 PM
To: Joe Frank Mailing List
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
Importance: Low
Hi Steve,
I haven't posted to this group a whole lot either, though I've been
watching it off and on for a few years. I'm glad to see you've posted,
especially since you seem to have taken the time to post a well-thought,
intelligent and considerate post.
So here's my thoughts: I don't believe there are any particular rules
here; I would expect the common sense protocols common on many online
forums. In other words, respect your neighbor, etc. Though I'd imagine
many of us hold Joe Frank - or at the very least, his art - at high
esteem, but I'm not about to say I worship him (yet; though if he starts
a religion, I don't know, LOL).
I find it funny that you say you're not quite comfortable referring to
him as "Joe" yet; I've often had the same feeling. When I refer to him
here or on one of my blogs - let's say I'm writing some commentary about
storytelling artists or something - I'm inclined to refer to the man by
his full name, too. I believe it's because I don't wish to be perceived
as one of those nutjobs who talks about a celebrity/artist/whomever as
if they *really* know her. (I'm not referring to any of you posting to
this list - except for you, of course, Larry Block. That's a joke,
LOL.)
Example: Following is a link to some commentary I recently posted in
which I mentioned Joe Frank; you'll, however, that I *crossed the
line* and referred to him by his forename:
http://www.somethingthathappened.com/2005/04/hi-reed-i-want-to-express-t
o-you-how.html
That's all I have to say for now. I'm off to watch an episode of
Deadwood I picked up at Goodwill; I hear this show's pretty decent.
Harold J. Johnson
From harold.johnson at gmail.com Sun May 1 09:28:22 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Sun May 1 09:28:26 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
In-Reply-To: <001401c54e22$4f3a42c0$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
References: <2dbaf4d80504301824ac49f5b@mail.gmail.com>
<001401c54e22$4f3a42c0$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d805050109286d986c38@mail.gmail.com>
Do we really need to return to the conversation about "Kate"? I
understand Steve here is just now exploring this subject, and that's
his prerogative, but personally I'd rather participate in a discussion
about Joe's *current* work.
Don't mind me; go ahead and talk about Kate to your heart's
content...I know it's a fascinating subject...
Harold J.
On 5/1/05, Steve Schneider <steve@theavocadopapers.com> wrote:
> Well -- I guess I should qualify what I said about my uneasiness
> referring to Joe Frank as "Joe": I realize that it's a convention on
> lists like these to refer to the subject of the list by his or her first
> name, and that that doesn't necessarily imply a familiarity that isn't
> there. So I don't mean to suggest that anyone on this list is doing
> that. Maybe it's particularly tricky with a "subject" such as J.F.,
> since one might be inclined after listening to dozens and dozens of his
> shows -- and particularly Karma-like shows -- to think that one "knows"
> him, since the shows are, at least seemingly, so personal in nature.
>
> Anyway: Kate: anyone? No takers? K, whether there are or not, here's
> another question to ponder, and it doesn't require speculation about
> someone's personal life: what do you think is J.F.'s feeling about Jack
> Kornfield? As far as I know -- and I could be wrong -- J.K.'s first
> appearance on a J.F. show is in the first Karma program. I SWEAR that
> J.F. put a laugh track over that first appearance (yes, there is often
> audience laughter in K's segments, but this was more overt, and the
> laughter was at particularly inappropriate moments), and I proceeded,
> through a few more Karma shows, to think that J.F. had included the J.K.
> "reflections" as an example of a futile worldview. But that doesn't
> seem to be the case at all.
>
> The only time I've even ever heard J.F. refer to the J.K. segments was
> in an interview: he says something about his shows being "religious" in
> the sense that it contrasts the sacred and the profane (note: that's a
> paraphrase). With the sacred represented by Kornfield's lectures and
> the profane represented by "normal" people such as J.F., Debi Mae West,
> and L. Block just dealing with life's struggles as best they can. I
> have to say, personally, that I find the Kornfield lectures to be my
> least favorite parts of the shows in which they appear; I hesitate,
> though, to fast-forward through them because the artist who created
> these shows put them there and I feel that I should therefore listen to
> them. But I find the other stuff -- the phone calls with L.B., D.M.W.,
> J.F.'s mother, D. Rafkin, and others; the first-person narrations of the
> latest Kate drama; the reminiscences of things like the NYC blackout;
> etc. -- to be much more entertaining, interesting, enlightening,
> relevant, etc.
>
> Would love to know others' thoughts on this topic. And the Kate topic.
> Call me a gossip-monger; I don't think I am being one (although I will
> admit to a certain amount of gut-level curiosity).
>
> -- Steve.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:25 PM
> To: Joe Frank Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
> Importance: Low
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> I haven't posted to this group a whole lot either, though I've been
> watching it off and on for a few years. I'm glad to see you've posted,
> especially since you seem to have taken the time to post a well-thought,
> intelligent and considerate post.
>
> So here's my thoughts: I don't believe there are any particular rules
> here; I would expect the common sense protocols common on many online
> forums. In other words, respect your neighbor, etc. Though I'd imagine
> many of us hold Joe Frank - or at the very least, his art - at high
> esteem, but I'm not about to say I worship him (yet; though if he starts
> a religion, I don't know, LOL).
>
> I find it funny that you say you're not quite comfortable referring to
> him as "Joe" yet; I've often had the same feeling. When I refer to him
> here or on one of my blogs - let's say I'm writing some commentary about
> storytelling artists or something - I'm inclined to refer to the man by
> his full name, too. I believe it's because I don't wish to be perceived
> as one of those nutjobs who talks about a celebrity/artist/whomever as
> if they *really* know her. (I'm not referring to any of you posting to
> this list - except for you, of course, Larry Block. That's a joke,
> LOL.)
>
> Example: Following is a link to some commentary I recently posted in
> which I mentioned Joe Frank; you'll, however, that I *crossed the
> line* and referred to him by his forename:
>
> http://www.somethingthathappened.com/2005/04/hi-reed-i-want-to-express-t
> o-you-how.html
>
> That's all I have to say for now. I'm off to watch an episode of
> Deadwood I picked up at Goodwill; I hear this show's pretty decent.
>
> Harold J. Johnson
>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
From harold.johnson at gmail.com Sun May 1 09:39:19 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Sun May 1 09:39:23 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
In-Reply-To: <001401c54e22$4f3a42c0$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
References: <2dbaf4d80504301824ac49f5b@mail.gmail.com>
<001401c54e22$4f3a42c0$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d80505010939679e2b86@mail.gmail.com>
Now there's a real interesting question I've been dying to know for
awhile, too. In the past I've wondered whether Joe (fuck it, I'm
calling him by his forename, it's just easier; if I called him Joe
Frank or Frank it gets too bizarre) really respected Jack Kornfield's
philosophy or if he was making a mockery of it; I'd venture to guess
that he finds something in Kornfield's program appealing, though he
leaves it to the listener to decide whether they agree.
One thing about the sacred/profane interview that you're referring to:
I don't know if this is the same recordng, but I recall Joe's
acceptance speech upon recieving the Third Coast International Audio
Festival's Lifetime Achievement Award (which is hilarious, by the way,
and if you haven't heard it you really should):
http://www.joefrank.com/newsthird.html
Harold J. Johnson
On 5/1/05, Steve Schneider <steve@theavocadopapers.com> wrote:
> K, whether there are or not, here's
> another question to ponder, and it doesn't require speculation about
> someone's personal life: what do you think is J.F.'s feeling about Jack
> Kornfield? As far as I know -- and I could be wrong -- J.K.'s first
> appearance on a J.F. show is in the first Karma program. I SWEAR that
> J.F. put a laugh track over that first appearance (yes, there is often
> audience laughter in K's segments, but this was more overt, and the
> laughter was at particularly inappropriate moments), and I proceeded,
> through a few more Karma shows, to think that J.F. had included the J.K.
> "reflections" as an example of a futile worldview. But that doesn't
> seem to be the case at all.
>
> The only time I've even ever heard J.F. refer to the J.K. segments was
> in an interview: he says something about his shows being "religious" in
> the sense that it contrasts the sacred and the profane (note: that's a
> paraphrase). With the sacred represented by Kornfield's lectures and
> the profane represented by "normal" people such as J.F., Debi Mae West,
> and L. Block just dealing with life's struggles as best they can. I
> have to say, personally, that I find the Kornfield lectures to be my
> least favorite parts of the shows in which they appear; I hesitate,
> though, to fast-forward through them because the artist who created
> these shows put them there and I feel that I should therefore listen to
> them. But I find the other stuff -- the phone calls with L.B., D.M.W.,
> J.F.'s mother, D. Rafkin, and others; the first-person narrations of the
> latest Kate drama; the reminiscences of things like the NYC blackout;
> etc. -- to be much more entertaining, interesting, enlightening,
> relevant, etc.
>
> Would love to know others' thoughts on this topic. And the Kate topic.
> Call me a gossip-monger; I don't think I am being one (although I will
> admit to a certain amount of gut-level curiosity).
>
> -- Steve.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:25 PM
> To: Joe Frank Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
> Importance: Low
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> I haven't posted to this group a whole lot either, though I've been
> watching it off and on for a few years. I'm glad to see you've posted,
> especially since you seem to have taken the time to post a well-thought,
> intelligent and considerate post.
>
> So here's my thoughts: I don't believe there are any particular rules
> here; I would expect the common sense protocols common on many online
> forums. In other words, respect your neighbor, etc. Though I'd imagine
> many of us hold Joe Frank - or at the very least, his art - at high
> esteem, but I'm not about to say I worship him (yet; though if he starts
> a religion, I don't know, LOL).
>
> I find it funny that you say you're not quite comfortable referring to
> him as "Joe" yet; I've often had the same feeling. When I refer to him
> here or on one of my blogs - let's say I'm writing some commentary about
> storytelling artists or something - I'm inclined to refer to the man by
> his full name, too. I believe it's because I don't wish to be perceived
> as one of those nutjobs who talks about a celebrity/artist/whomever as
> if they *really* know her. (I'm not referring to any of you posting to
> this list - except for you, of course, Larry Block. That's a joke,
> LOL.)
>
> Example: Following is a link to some commentary I recently posted in
> which I mentioned Joe Frank; you'll, however, that I *crossed the
> line* and referred to him by his forename:
>
> http://www.somethingthathappened.com/2005/04/hi-reed-i-want-to-express-t
> o-you-how.html
>
> That's all I have to say for now. I'm off to watch an episode of
> Deadwood I picked up at Goodwill; I hear this show's pretty decent.
>
> Harold J. Johnson
>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
From majestic_cheese at yahoo.com Sun May 1 12:34:53 2005
From: majestic_cheese at yahoo.com (Larry Dunn)
Date: Sun May 1 12:36:26 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Kate?
In-Reply-To: <200505010012.ac09725@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <20050501193453.83463.qmail@web30002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Thanks to all who responded to my initial inquiry with
thoughtful and articulate responses and helpful
repostings of former discussions. I had feared that
this list wasn't going to be a prime discussion venue,
what with the total silence concerning my question,
the sometimes-inane response to the news of Joe's
recent illness and the tendency people had (sadly,
still have) not to make even a token effort to trim
their responses. It's good to see that actual
substantive discussion happens too.
Catherine Zeta-Jones did pop into mind at first, but I
don't think the timing and her age are right, and if
it were actually her, it'd be too ... obvious. I
assume that Joe would want to change around the
details just enough to avoid general bad joo-joo if
not potwntial litigation. Even the recent show about
a certain radio station head honcho had a few details
twisted a bit, though in that case it was patently
obvious what was being discussed.
Anyway, I mean COME ON. Catherine Zeta-Jones? If it
were her, any guy would shrug off such minor details
as Borderline Personality Disorder.
Then again, that's probably a naive position to take;
as Chris Rock says, no matter how beautiful a woman
is, no matter how sensual and seemingly unattainable,
no matter how universally craved -- somewhere out
there is a guy who is sick to death of fucking her.
Anyway, I doubt that Joe would change around the facts
to the extent that he portrayed a short fat Vietnamese
woman as a tall gorgeous Welsh woman.
My suspicion is that Mr. Frank has done his work well,
and we will never figure out who it is, short of one
of his friends blabbing. I wonder if a bottle of
single malt might convince Larry Block to do so? And
if so, could we trust his response? Highly suspect!
He would play with us as Lector would have played with
Clarice had she been sent in to interview him with an
agenda.
Or maybe Debi Mae West can be bought -- and what
currency might appeal to her? Spiritual fulfillment?
Kissing her feet? Spiritual fulfillment while kissing
her feet? (She's great; I volunteer.)
Odds are it will remain a mystery forever, like the
Black Dahlia case.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
From harold.johnson at gmail.com Sun May 1 13:07:18 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Sun May 1 13:07:25 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Kate?
In-Reply-To: <20050501193453.83463.qmail@web30002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <200505010012.ac09725@deepthought.armory.com>
<20050501193453.83463.qmail@web30002.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d805050113074468d36a@mail.gmail.com>
On 5/1/05, Larry Dunn <majestic_cheese@yahoo.com> wrote:
> My suspicion is that Mr. Frank has done his work well,
> and we will never figure out who it is, short of one
> of his friends blabbing. I wonder if a bottle of
> single malt might convince Larry Block to do so?
I don't think Larry's that easy. In fact, I don't even believe Larry
really drinks. It's all an act; Larry's simply a fine actor who is--
Oh, who am I kidding? I can smell a brother in desperate need of a
*sponsor* a mile away...
(Seriously, though, Mr. Block - you should call me. I won't hit you
with the AA stuff, though, I promise. I don't even go to AA, and I'm
sober. Really. I know, my posts don't reflect this, but I am. It's
just coffee, man, that's all - lots of coffee.)
Harold
From awkwardgrace at yahoo.com Sun May 1 14:57:23 2005
From: awkwardgrace at yahoo.com (Tom McDonald)
Date: Sun May 1 14:58:56 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Kornfield
Message-ID: <20050501215723.28550.qmail@web50501.mail.yahoo.com>
The topic of Kornfield is interesting.
The person who mentioned him on the Kate thread said
the Kornfield segments are boring compared to the
other parts of the JF tapestry. I might have agreed
with this the first few times I heard them.
But after a while I began to really dig the contrast
between Kornfield's voice and philosophy, and the rest
of the episodes. Then came appreciation of the
musicality of his voice (it felt too new-agey soft and
sing-songy at first blush). Then came the realization
that Kornfield has some extremely worthwhile insights
and notions. I'd wager JF's motive is not to hold up
Kornfield to scorn or laughter, but to enrich the
tapestry, to change the pace, to set up a tension that
can resolve pretty pleasantly the more the voice of
Kornfield sinks into the listen.
Let me put it this way, if Kornfield had his own NPR
show I probably would have turned the dial everytime
it came it--I'd have written it off as dippy
self-helpage. It took JF, so cynical and dark and
ironic and suffering, to present Kornfield in a way
that made me see the worth of it.
Ironically it appears I've spend more money on
Kornfield's audio books than on JF material! (Well,
that's only because it seems painfully easy to me to
download a Kornfield book from the Apple music store
or Audible.com--I REALLY wish JF shows were available
for purchase via those venues.)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
From steve at theavocadopapers.com Sun May 1 15:14:21 2005
From: steve at theavocadopapers.com (Steve Schneider)
Date: Sun May 1 15:17:35 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] J. Kornfield
In-Reply-To: <2dbaf4d805050109286d986c38@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001801c54e9b$268428e0$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
This post didnt really concern Kate at all; it concerned J. Kornfield.
(Also: this list is for discussing J.F.'s current work only?) Anyway:
love to know anyone's thoughts about those lectures -- Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
[mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold Johnson
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 12:28 PM
To: Joe Frank Mailing List
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
Importance: Low
Do we really need to return to the conversation about "Kate"? I
understand Steve here is just now exploring this subject, and that's his
prerogative, but personally I'd rather participate in a discussion about
Joe's *current* work.
Don't mind me; go ahead and talk about Kate to your heart's content...I
know it's a fascinating subject...
Harold J.
On 5/1/05, Steve Schneider <steve@theavocadopapers.com> wrote:
> Well -- I guess I should qualify what I said about my uneasiness
> referring to Joe Frank as "Joe": I realize that it's a convention on
> lists like these to refer to the subject of the list by his or her
> first name, and that that doesn't necessarily imply a familiarity that
> isn't there. So I don't mean to suggest that anyone on this list is
> doing that. Maybe it's particularly tricky with a "subject" such as
> J.F., since one might be inclined after listening to dozens and dozens
> of his shows -- and particularly Karma-like shows -- to think that one
> "knows" him, since the shows are, at least seemingly, so personal in
> nature.
>
> Anyway: Kate: anyone? No takers? K, whether there are or not, here's
> another question to ponder, and it doesn't require speculation about
> someone's personal life: what do you think is J.F.'s feeling about
> Jack Kornfield? As far as I know -- and I could be wrong -- J.K.'s
> first appearance on a J.F. show is in the first Karma program. I
> SWEAR that J.F. put a laugh track over that first appearance (yes,
> there is often audience laughter in K's segments, but this was more
> overt, and the laughter was at particularly inappropriate moments),
> and I proceeded, through a few more Karma shows, to think that J.F.
> had included the J.K. "reflections" as an example of a futile
> worldview. But that doesn't seem to be the case at all.
>
> The only time I've even ever heard J.F. refer to the J.K. segments was
> in an interview: he says something about his shows being "religious"
> in the sense that it contrasts the sacred and the profane (note:
> that's a paraphrase). With the sacred represented by Kornfield's
> lectures and the profane represented by "normal" people such as J.F.,
> Debi Mae West, and L. Block just dealing with life's struggles as best
> they can. I have to say, personally, that I find the Kornfield
> lectures to be my least favorite parts of the shows in which they
> appear; I hesitate, though, to fast-forward through them because the
> artist who created these shows put them there and I feel that I should
> therefore listen to them. But I find the other stuff -- the phone
> calls with L.B., D.M.W., J.F.'s mother, D. Rafkin, and others; the
> first-person narrations of the latest Kate drama; the reminiscences of
> things like the NYC blackout; etc. -- to be much more entertaining,
> interesting, enlightening, relevant, etc.
>
> Would love to know others' thoughts on this topic. And the Kate
> topic. Call me a gossip-monger; I don't think I am being one (although
> I will admit to a certain amount of gut-level curiosity).
>
> -- Steve.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:25 PM
> To: Joe Frank Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
> Importance: Low
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> I haven't posted to this group a whole lot either, though I've been
> watching it off and on for a few years. I'm glad to see you've
> posted, especially since you seem to have taken the time to post a
> well-thought, intelligent and considerate post.
>
> So here's my thoughts: I don't believe there are any particular rules
> here; I would expect the common sense protocols common on many online
> forums. In other words, respect your neighbor, etc. Though I'd
> imagine many of us hold Joe Frank - or at the very least, his art - at
> high esteem, but I'm not about to say I worship him (yet; though if he
> starts a religion, I don't know, LOL).
>
> I find it funny that you say you're not quite comfortable referring to
> him as "Joe" yet; I've often had the same feeling. When I refer to
> him here or on one of my blogs - let's say I'm writing some commentary
> about storytelling artists or something - I'm inclined to refer to the
> man by his full name, too. I believe it's because I don't wish to be
> perceived as one of those nutjobs who talks about a
> celebrity/artist/whomever as if they *really* know her. (I'm not
> referring to any of you posting to this list - except for you, of
> course, Larry Block. That's a joke,
> LOL.)
>
> Example: Following is a link to some commentary I recently posted in
> which I mentioned Joe Frank; you'll, however, that I *crossed the
> line* and referred to him by his forename:
>
> http://www.somethingthathappened.com/2005/04/hi-reed-i-want-to-express
> -t
> o-you-how.html
>
> That's all I have to say for now. I'm off to watch an episode of
> Deadwood I picked up at Goodwill; I hear this show's pretty decent.
>
> Harold J. Johnson
>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
_______________________________________________
Joe Frank Mailing List
joe-frank-list@armory.com
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
From dooley at cradock.net Sun May 1 15:25:12 2005
From: dooley at cradock.net (John Dooley Cradock)
Date: Sun May 1 15:25:18 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] J. Kornfield
In-Reply-To: <001801c54e9b$268428e0$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
References: <001801c54e9b$268428e0$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
Message-ID: <9A907F07-34BA-41F6-94E6-4B170C305712@cradock.net>
I dig the Jack Kornfield stuff. I first heard him in these Joe Frank
programs. After that, I sought out more of his stuff. His voice is
what gets me. It's so calm, so placid.
On May 1, 2005, at 6:14 PM, Steve Schneider wrote:
> This post didnt really concern Kate at all; it concerned J. Kornfield.
> (Also: this list is for discussing J.F.'s current work only?) Anyway:
> love to know anyone's thoughts about those lectures -- Steve.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 12:28 PM
> To: Joe Frank Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
> Importance: Low
>
>
> Do we really need to return to the conversation about "Kate"? I
> understand Steve here is just now exploring this subject, and
> that's his
> prerogative, but personally I'd rather participate in a discussion
> about
> Joe's *current* work.
>
> Don't mind me; go ahead and talk about Kate to your heart's
> content...I
> know it's a fascinating subject...
>
> Harold J.
>
> On 5/1/05, Steve Schneider <steve@theavocadopapers.com> wrote:
>
>> Well -- I guess I should qualify what I said about my uneasiness
>> referring to Joe Frank as "Joe": I realize that it's a convention on
>> lists like these to refer to the subject of the list by his or her
>> first name, and that that doesn't necessarily imply a familiarity
>> that
>>
>
>
>> isn't there. So I don't mean to suggest that anyone on this list is
>> doing that. Maybe it's particularly tricky with a "subject" such as
>> J.F., since one might be inclined after listening to dozens and
>> dozens
>>
>
>
>> of his shows -- and particularly Karma-like shows -- to think that
>> one
>>
>
>
>> "knows" him, since the shows are, at least seemingly, so personal in
>> nature.
>>
>> Anyway: Kate: anyone? No takers? K, whether there are or not,
>> here's
>> another question to ponder, and it doesn't require speculation about
>> someone's personal life: what do you think is J.F.'s feeling about
>> Jack Kornfield? As far as I know -- and I could be wrong -- J.K.'s
>> first appearance on a J.F. show is in the first Karma program. I
>> SWEAR that J.F. put a laugh track over that first appearance (yes,
>> there is often audience laughter in K's segments, but this was more
>> overt, and the laughter was at particularly inappropriate moments),
>> and I proceeded, through a few more Karma shows, to think that J.F.
>> had included the J.K. "reflections" as an example of a futile
>> worldview. But that doesn't seem to be the case at all.
>>
>> The only time I've even ever heard J.F. refer to the J.K. segments
>> was
>> in an interview: he says something about his shows being "religious"
>> in the sense that it contrasts the sacred and the profane (note:
>> that's a paraphrase). With the sacred represented by Kornfield's
>> lectures and the profane represented by "normal" people such as J.F.,
>> Debi Mae West, and L. Block just dealing with life's struggles as
>> best
>>
>
>
>> they can. I have to say, personally, that I find the Kornfield
>> lectures to be my least favorite parts of the shows in which they
>> appear; I hesitate, though, to fast-forward through them because the
>> artist who created these shows put them there and I feel that I
>> should
>>
>
>
>> therefore listen to them. But I find the other stuff -- the phone
>> calls with L.B., D.M.W., J.F.'s mother, D. Rafkin, and others; the
>> first-person narrations of the latest Kate drama; the
>> reminiscences of
>>
>
>
>> things like the NYC blackout; etc. -- to be much more entertaining,
>> interesting, enlightening, relevant, etc.
>>
>> Would love to know others' thoughts on this topic. And the Kate
>> topic. Call me a gossip-monger; I don't think I am being one
>> (although
>>
>
>
>> I will admit to a certain amount of gut-level curiosity).
>>
>> -- Steve.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
>> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold
>> Johnson
>> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:25 PM
>> To: Joe Frank Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
>> Importance: Low
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> I haven't posted to this group a whole lot either, though I've been
>> watching it off and on for a few years. I'm glad to see you've
>> posted, especially since you seem to have taken the time to post a
>> well-thought, intelligent and considerate post.
>>
>> So here's my thoughts: I don't believe there are any particular rules
>> here; I would expect the common sense protocols common on many online
>> forums. In other words, respect your neighbor, etc. Though I'd
>> imagine many of us hold Joe Frank - or at the very least, his art
>> - at
>>
>
>
>> high esteem, but I'm not about to say I worship him (yet; though
>> if he
>>
>
>
>> starts a religion, I don't know, LOL).
>>
>> I find it funny that you say you're not quite comfortable
>> referring to
>> him as "Joe" yet; I've often had the same feeling. When I refer to
>> him here or on one of my blogs - let's say I'm writing some
>> commentary
>>
>
>
>> about storytelling artists or something - I'm inclined to refer to
>> the
>>
>
>
>> man by his full name, too. I believe it's because I don't wish to be
>> perceived as one of those nutjobs who talks about a
>> celebrity/artist/whomever as if they *really* know her. (I'm not
>> referring to any of you posting to this list - except for you, of
>> course, Larry Block. That's a joke,
>> LOL.)
>>
>> Example: Following is a link to some commentary I recently posted in
>> which I mentioned Joe Frank; you'll, however, that I *crossed the
>> line* and referred to him by his forename:
>>
>> http://www.somethingthathappened.com/2005/04/hi-reed-i-want-to-
>> express
>> -t
>> o-you-how.html
>>
>> That's all I have to say for now. I'm off to watch an episode of
>> Deadwood I picked up at Goodwill; I hear this show's pretty decent.
>>
>> Harold J. Johnson
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Joe Frank Mailing List
>> joe-frank-list@armory.com
>> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
>
From LBlockD at aol.com Sun May 1 15:25:38 2005
From: LBlockD at aol.com (LBlockD@aol.com)
Date: Sun May 1 15:25:47 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 2
Message-ID: <2b.7259b70c.2fa6b162@aol.com>
Harold J. Johnson: As a fairly intimate aquaintance of Joe Frank - though
not in the biblical sense - I would encourage you, and all other friends, to
call him Joe...or Joseph the Elder, as I do. As for his sense of Jack Kornfield
- and mine - we love Jack's wisdom and only wish e could practice what Jack
seems to practice. It's a problem of transmission, I guess. All the best.
Larry Block
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From LBlockD at aol.com Sun May 1 15:39:47 2005
From: LBlockD at aol.com (LBlockD@aol.com)
Date: Sun May 1 15:39:57 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 2
Message-ID: <140.4379bec8.2fa6b4b3@aol.com>
STEVE: Sorry to have not addressed your insights. Agreed, we put up with
Jack because Joe put him there, but don't you see the wondeful counterpoint of
us low-down strugglers and this smooth talking guru. I think he's cool, but
as arrogant as Wayne Dyer to suggest that his sense of things is available to
me just because he says so. It's a kind of crypto-fascism, dontcha think?
We could all be fine if only we really wanted to be. With regard to Kate:
she's much less mysterious than you might think. Just a beautiful woman that
got Joe's attention and wouldn't let go of it even after she had let go of it.
Larry Block
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From steve at theavocadopapers.com Sun May 1 16:03:49 2005
From: steve at theavocadopapers.com (Steve Schneider)
Date: Sun May 1 16:04:03 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] J. Kornfield
In-Reply-To: <9A907F07-34BA-41F6-94E6-4B170C305712@cradock.net>
Message-ID: <002e01c54ea2$0d2cde80$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
Yeah -- I like them sometimes too; sometimes, though, for whatever
reason, they're not what I want to hear in the context of a J.F. show,
but that's my problem, not anyone else's. The reason I brought them up
was more because I was curious about what J.F.'s thoughts were on them.
As I said, my initial reaction (that JF put them in there as an example
of a futile worldview) was disspelled pretty quickly. I must say that
it's hard for me to relate to Kornfield's ideas on how to live one's
life because I think (and I don't think I'm alone here, or I wouldn't
mention it) that I thrive on internal conflict, on my conflicting ideas
about how one should live his life; I'm not sure I'd like to have those
conflicts resolved. Maybe this is my New York outlook: I think a lot of
New Yorkers THRIVE on (internal and external) conflict -- sometimes it's
hard to imagine why someone would otherwise choose to live in New York
City.
I thought of something, btw, that JF said about Kornfield -- was
thinking before that he never referred directly to him except in a few
phone conversations w/ Larry Block -- on "Insomnia," he said (about an
ex-KCRW staffer who neglected to repay a debt to him) something like
"then I tried to be a little Kornfeldian for a moment and love the
little fucker who stole from me." This sounds to me like a statement
made by someone with ambivilent feelings about Kornfield -- or at least,
someone who, in moments of "crisis," wonders, "what's in this guy's
teachings that's relevant to MY life; this jerk STOLE from me!" (the
jerk being the ex-KCRW staffer, not JK). It also sounds in line with
what Larry Block says about his and JF's "approach" to Kornfield.
(A topic for another time: I wonder if Kornfield has listened to JF's
work, and if so, what he thinks about it.)
-- Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
[mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of John Dooley
Cradock
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 6:25 PM
To: Joe Frank Mailing List
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] J. Kornfield
Importance: Low
I dig the Jack Kornfield stuff. I first heard him in these Joe Frank
programs. After that, I sought out more of his stuff. His voice is
what gets me. It's so calm, so placid.
On May 1, 2005, at 6:14 PM, Steve Schneider wrote:
> This post didnt really concern Kate at all; it concerned J. Kornfield.
> (Also: this list is for discussing J.F.'s current work only?) Anyway:
> love to know anyone's thoughts about those lectures -- Steve.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 12:28 PM
> To: Joe Frank Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
> Importance: Low
>
>
> Do we really need to return to the conversation about "Kate"? I
> understand Steve here is just now exploring this subject, and
> that's his
> prerogative, but personally I'd rather participate in a discussion
> about
> Joe's *current* work.
>
> Don't mind me; go ahead and talk about Kate to your heart's
> content...I
> know it's a fascinating subject...
>
> Harold J.
>
> On 5/1/05, Steve Schneider <steve@theavocadopapers.com> wrote:
>
>> Well -- I guess I should qualify what I said about my uneasiness
>> referring to Joe Frank as "Joe": I realize that it's a convention on
>> lists like these to refer to the subject of the list by his or her
>> first name, and that that doesn't necessarily imply a familiarity
>> that
>>
>
>
>> isn't there. So I don't mean to suggest that anyone on this list is
>> doing that. Maybe it's particularly tricky with a "subject" such as
>> J.F., since one might be inclined after listening to dozens and
>> dozens
>>
>
>
>> of his shows -- and particularly Karma-like shows -- to think that
>> one
>>
>
>
>> "knows" him, since the shows are, at least seemingly, so personal in
>> nature.
>>
>> Anyway: Kate: anyone? No takers? K, whether there are or not,
>> here's
>> another question to ponder, and it doesn't require speculation about
>> someone's personal life: what do you think is J.F.'s feeling about
>> Jack Kornfield? As far as I know -- and I could be wrong -- J.K.'s
>> first appearance on a J.F. show is in the first Karma program. I
>> SWEAR that J.F. put a laugh track over that first appearance (yes,
>> there is often audience laughter in K's segments, but this was more
>> overt, and the laughter was at particularly inappropriate moments),
>> and I proceeded, through a few more Karma shows, to think that J.F.
>> had included the J.K. "reflections" as an example of a futile
>> worldview. But that doesn't seem to be the case at all.
>>
>> The only time I've even ever heard J.F. refer to the J.K. segments
>> was
>> in an interview: he says something about his shows being "religious"
>> in the sense that it contrasts the sacred and the profane (note:
>> that's a paraphrase). With the sacred represented by Kornfield's
>> lectures and the profane represented by "normal" people such as J.F.,
>> Debi Mae West, and L. Block just dealing with life's struggles as
>> best
>>
>
>
>> they can. I have to say, personally, that I find the Kornfield
>> lectures to be my least favorite parts of the shows in which they
>> appear; I hesitate, though, to fast-forward through them because the
>> artist who created these shows put them there and I feel that I
>> should
>>
>
>
>> therefore listen to them. But I find the other stuff -- the phone
>> calls with L.B., D.M.W., J.F.'s mother, D. Rafkin, and others; the
>> first-person narrations of the latest Kate drama; the
>> reminiscences of
>>
>
>
>> things like the NYC blackout; etc. -- to be much more entertaining,
>> interesting, enlightening, relevant, etc.
>>
>> Would love to know others' thoughts on this topic. And the Kate
>> topic. Call me a gossip-monger; I don't think I am being one
>> (although
>>
>
>
>> I will admit to a certain amount of gut-level curiosity).
>>
>> -- Steve.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
>> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold
>> Johnson
>> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:25 PM
>> To: Joe Frank Mailing List
>> Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
>> Importance: Low
>>
>> Hi Steve,
>>
>> I haven't posted to this group a whole lot either, though I've been
>> watching it off and on for a few years. I'm glad to see you've
>> posted, especially since you seem to have taken the time to post a
>> well-thought, intelligent and considerate post.
>>
>> So here's my thoughts: I don't believe there are any particular rules
>> here; I would expect the common sense protocols common on many online
>> forums. In other words, respect your neighbor, etc. Though I'd
>> imagine many of us hold Joe Frank - or at the very least, his art
>> - at
>>
>
>
>> high esteem, but I'm not about to say I worship him (yet; though
>> if he
>>
>
>
>> starts a religion, I don't know, LOL).
>>
>> I find it funny that you say you're not quite comfortable
>> referring to
>> him as "Joe" yet; I've often had the same feeling. When I refer to
>> him here or on one of my blogs - let's say I'm writing some
>> commentary
>>
>
>
>> about storytelling artists or something - I'm inclined to refer to
>> the
>>
>
>
>> man by his full name, too. I believe it's because I don't wish to be
>> perceived as one of those nutjobs who talks about a
>> celebrity/artist/whomever as if they *really* know her. (I'm not
>> referring to any of you posting to this list - except for you, of
>> course, Larry Block. That's a joke,
>> LOL.)
>>
>> Example: Following is a link to some commentary I recently posted in
>> which I mentioned Joe Frank; you'll, however, that I *crossed the
>> line* and referred to him by his forename:
>>
>> http://www.somethingthathappened.com/2005/04/hi-reed-i-want-to-
>> express
>> -t
>> o-you-how.html
>>
>> That's all I have to say for now. I'm off to watch an episode of
>> Deadwood I picked up at Goodwill; I hear this show's pretty decent.
>>
>> Harold J. Johnson
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Joe Frank Mailing List
>> joe-frank-list@armory.com
>> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
>
_______________________________________________
Joe Frank Mailing List
joe-frank-list@armory.com
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
From creigeallan at yahoo.com Sun May 1 16:10:16 2005
From: creigeallan at yahoo.com (craig millman)
Date: Sun May 1 16:11:48 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Kornfield
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050501231016.90724.qmail@web20921.mail.yahoo.com>
Kornfield is definitely a cut above standard self-help
fare. I don't think Joe Frank would have included a
run of the mill, pedantic spiritualist on his show.
He's a PhD, a clinical therapist and a graduate of
Dartmouth College. His lectures resonate with an
honesty and a lack of artifice few can match. He's the
real deal.
--- Tom McDonald <awkwardgrace@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The topic of Kornfield is interesting.
>
> The person who mentioned him on the Kate thread said
> the Kornfield segments are boring compared to the
> other parts of the JF tapestry. I might have agreed
> with this the first few times I heard them.
>
> But after a while I began to really dig the contrast
> between Kornfield's voice and philosophy, and the
> rest
> of the episodes. Then came appreciation of the
> musicality of his voice (it felt too new-agey soft
> and
> sing-songy at first blush). Then came the
> realization
> that Kornfield has some extremely worthwhile
> insights
> and notions. I'd wager JF's motive is not to hold up
> Kornfield to scorn or laughter, but to enrich the
> tapestry, to change the pace, to set up a tension
> that
> can resolve pretty pleasantly the more the voice of
> Kornfield sinks into the listen.
>
> Let me put it this way, if Kornfield had his own NPR
> show I probably would have turned the dial everytime
> it came it--I'd have written it off as dippy
> self-helpage. It took JF, so cynical and dark and
> ironic and suffering, to present Kornfield in a way
> that made me see the worth of it.
>
> Ironically it appears I've spend more money on
> Kornfield's audio books than on JF material! (Well,
> that's only because it seems painfully easy to me to
> download a Kornfield book from the Apple music store
> or Audible.com--I REALLY wish JF shows were
> available
> for purchase via those venues.)
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
>
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
From steve at theavocadopapers.com Sun May 1 16:32:43 2005
From: steve at theavocadopapers.com (Steve Schneider)
Date: Sun May 1 16:32:57 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <140.4379bec8.2fa6b4b3@aol.com>
Message-ID: <003201c54ea6$1613c820$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
Yes, and I agree that it provides a counterpoint, certainly. Whether --
to me, only to me -- it's "wonderful" or not is another story. I like
the concept, the abstract idea of this cointerpoint, but wonder
sometimes if the fact of Kornfield lectures interspersed throughout the
shows "works." After all, there's quite a bit of counterpoint in those
shows without them. Maybe it just comes down to this: that I feel
there's more for me to LEARN FROM -- and certainly more for me to
IDENTIFY WITH -- in, for example, your conversations with JF, than there
is in listening to a (prmarily) Buddhist teacher's reflections on how
one might lead an "ideal" life. E.g., I'm not religious, but it seems
to be that Christ -- assuming there was some actualy historical figure
resembling him -- probably had a lot to say about how to live a decent,
fulfilling life. But I'm not sure I'd want to hear his lectures about
turning the other cheek and so on.
And I agree with you definitely, Larry, that there is something perhaps
crypto-Faschistic and certainly naive about Dyer's or Kornfield's notion
that one can just BE a certain way if one TRIES HARD ENOUGH (implying,
btw, that if you fail to BECOME this certain way, you've clearly not
TRIED hard enough). It reminds me of a conversation that you had with
JF in which you recalled some 1960s- or 70s-era guru who proposed such a
way of thinking, and you said something like "it's not NEARLY that
EASY!!" And I agree. I'd say that, often, it's impossible, actually.
And generally when something's impossible, one tries OTHER approaches to
achieve whatever the goal is (the goal here being to achieve a
fulfilling/meaningful/happy life, I guess). If you want to fly from New
York to L.A., you could try flapping your wings REALLY HARD. But you'd
find that to be an impossible way of flying. So, instead, you'd
probably go to Jetblue.com instead and buy a ticket. You'd have shelled
out $400 for the flight, but think of all the time and energy you'd have
saved for OTHER things that you want to accomplish.
It also reminds me of various conversations that JF has had with Debi
Mae West (e.g. her claim that perhaps she self-healed herself from
cancer): JF's response was that the outgrowth of that way of thinking is
that if one gets cancer, one hasn't TRIED HARD ENOUGH -- or chanted
enough or been devoted to one's faith enough.
Which in TURN reminds me -- and think about it: it's not so different --
of Jerry Falwell saying that lesbians, pro-choicers, "members of the
ACLU" (he actually said that), and others "have to take some of the
blame" for 9/11, because "God will not be mocked." What he's saying --
well, is it so different from saying that one can ward off cancer by
being a devoted Buddhist?
-- Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
[mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of LBlockD@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 6:40 PM
To: joe-frank-list@armory.com
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 2
Importance: Low
STEVE: Sorry to have not addressed your insights. Agreed, we put up
with Jack because Joe put him there, but don't you see the wondeful
counterpoint of us low-down strugglers and this smooth talking guru. I
think he's cool, but as arrogant as Wayne Dyer to suggest that his sense
of things is available to me just because he says so. It's a kind of
crypto-fascism, dontcha think? We could all be fine if only we really
wanted to be. With regard to Kate: she's much less mysterious than you
might think. Just a beautiful woman that got Joe's attention and
wouldn't let go of it even after she had let go of it. Larry Block
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From LBlockD at aol.com Sun May 1 16:37:42 2005
From: LBlockD at aol.com (LBlockD@aol.com)
Date: Sun May 1 16:37:50 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 3
Message-ID: <e1.129e485f.2fa6c246@aol.com>
I have been reluctant to enter the fray here, but Harold's little
assumptions about me - and Joe's work - has given me pause. This is the first time I've
joined a web-chat and perhaps the last; there is such a potential for
bullying and bragging. Don't you agree, Harold? As for single-malts and AA
meetings, let me say - as Winston Churchill did - that I've gotten a lot more out
of scotch than scotch ever got out of me. How ironic: my father was named
Harold and it's my son's middle name. Larry Block
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From steve at theavocadopapers.com Sun May 1 16:56:04 2005
From: steve at theavocadopapers.com (Steve Schneider)
Date: Sun May 1 16:56:18 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Kate?
In-Reply-To: <2dbaf4d805050113074468d36a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004301c54ea9$59e7cc10$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
Harold, that was an asinine post. Peet's Coffee has an excellent decaf:
http://www.peets.com/shop/coffee_detail.asp?id=59&cid=1006
-- Steve.
-----Original Message-----
From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
[mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold Johnson
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 4:07 PM
To: Joe Frank Mailing List
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Re: Kate?
Importance: Low
On 5/1/05, Larry Dunn <majestic_cheese@yahoo.com> wrote:
> My suspicion is that Mr. Frank has done his work well,
> and we will never figure out who it is, short of one
> of his friends blabbing. I wonder if a bottle of
> single malt might convince Larry Block to do so?
I don't think Larry's that easy. In fact, I don't even believe Larry
really drinks. It's all an act; Larry's simply a fine actor who is--
Oh, who am I kidding? I can smell a brother in desperate need of a
*sponsor* a mile away...
(Seriously, though, Mr. Block - you should call me. I won't hit you
with the AA stuff, though, I promise. I don't even go to AA, and I'm
sober. Really. I know, my posts don't reflect this, but I am. It's
just coffee, man, that's all - lots of coffee.)
Harold
_______________________________________________
Joe Frank Mailing List
joe-frank-list@armory.com
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
From LBlockD at aol.com Sun May 1 17:16:41 2005
From: LBlockD at aol.com (LBlockD@aol.com)
Date: Sun May 1 17:16:51 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 4
Message-ID: <102.604153b3.2fa6cb69@aol.com>
Steve Schneider: I enjoyed your Kornfieldian ruminations. I think many of
us would like to have the "realization" and "detachment" that Kornfield seems
- genuinley - to have. But I think it goes beyond the idea that we perhaps
should cherish our "inner conflict;" though we musn't repress it either,
which seems the problem with Jack's tao. A couple of years ago, on a Joe show, I
talked about a few days of real frustration I had about something, and how I
tried to lay some "Kornfieldian" letting go on the situation, but without
much success. Then, after a day or so, it just went away. And I realized -
in that moment of Zen - that while you can't really push anything out of your
mind, if you are patient with the pain, it often goes away by itself.
Ksanti. Larry Block
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From harold.johnson at gmail.com Sun May 1 17:19:34 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Sun May 1 17:19:37 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Kate?
In-Reply-To: <004301c54ea9$59e7cc10$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
References: <2dbaf4d805050113074468d36a@mail.gmail.com>
<004301c54ea9$59e7cc10$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d805050117197097225f@mail.gmail.com>
Don't even talk about decaf with me, Steve!
Harold
On 5/1/05, Steve Schneider <steve@theavocadopapers.com> wrote:
> Harold, that was an asinine post. Peet's Coffee has an excellent decaf:
>
> http://www.peets.com/shop/coffee_detail.asp?id=59&cid=1006
>
> -- Steve.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 4:07 PM
> To: Joe Frank Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Re: Kate?
> Importance: Low
>
> On 5/1/05, Larry Dunn <majestic_cheese@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > My suspicion is that Mr. Frank has done his work well,
> > and we will never figure out who it is, short of one
> > of his friends blabbing. I wonder if a bottle of
> > single malt might convince Larry Block to do so?
>
> I don't think Larry's that easy. In fact, I don't even believe Larry
> really drinks. It's all an act; Larry's simply a fine actor who is--
>
> Oh, who am I kidding? I can smell a brother in desperate need of a
> *sponsor* a mile away...
>
> (Seriously, though, Mr. Block - you should call me. I won't hit you
> with the AA stuff, though, I promise. I don't even go to AA, and I'm
> sober. Really. I know, my posts don't reflect this, but I am. It's
> just coffee, man, that's all - lots of coffee.)
>
> Harold
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
From harold.johnson at gmail.com Sun May 1 17:29:50 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Sun May 1 17:29:56 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <e1.129e485f.2fa6c246@aol.com>
References: <e1.129e485f.2fa6c246@aol.com>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d805050117293b44d1cd@mail.gmail.com>
Hold on, there, Larry - I didn't mention anything about single malts!
However, I will add this: I don't know what's worse, having to piss
all day from caffeine or having to puke at least once a day from
booze. It's all a matter of perspective, vaya con Dios. (My dad's
name is Harold, by the way, and he's a good fellow, too.)
Harold
On 5/1/05, LBlockD@aol.com <LBlockD@aol.com> wrote:
>
> I have been reluctant to enter the fray here, but Harold's little
> assumptions about me - and Joe's work - has given me pause. This is the
> first time I've joined a web-chat and perhaps the last; there is such a
> potential for bullying and bragging. Don't you agree, Harold? As for
> single-malts and AA meetings, let me say - as Winston Churchill did - that
> I've gotten a lot more out of scotch than scotch ever got out of me. How
> ironic: my father was named Harold and it's my son's middle name. Larry
> Block
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
>
>
From harold.johnson at gmail.com Sun May 1 17:43:03 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Sun May 1 17:43:07 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] J. Kornfield
In-Reply-To: <9A907F07-34BA-41F6-94E6-4B170C305712@cradock.net>
References: <001801c54e9b$268428e0$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2>
<9A907F07-34BA-41F6-94E6-4B170C305712@cradock.net>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d805050117435acae8ec@mail.gmail.com>
Yes, I agree. In fact, after hearing Kornfield on Joe's shows, I
found myself walking into a new-agey shop in Santa Monica one day.
(The smell of incense drew me in.) Browsing the store, I heard
Kornfield's voice in my head; it was crowding out the other voices at
the moment. (That's a joke, folks.) So I asked the shopkeeper if she
had any of Jack's audio, and to my surprise she did!
The purchase price was $40 or so for Kornfield's tapes, so I'll stick
to listening to Joe. Hearing Jack's voice, though, is soothing and
calming and...well, sometimes annoying because you wonder how in the
world someone can maintain that distance from your own reality! It's
all good within Joe's shows, though.
That said, I'd love to hear Jack's tapes.
Harold
On 5/1/05, John Dooley Cradock <dooley@cradock.net> wrote:
> I dig the Jack Kornfield stuff. I first heard him in these Joe Frank
> programs. After that, I sought out more of his stuff. His voice is
> what gets me. It's so calm, so placid.
>
>
> On May 1, 2005, at 6:14 PM, Steve Schneider wrote:
>
> > This post didnt really concern Kate at all; it concerned J. Kornfield.
> > (Also: this list is for discussing J.F.'s current work only?) Anyway:
> > love to know anyone's thoughts about those lectures -- Steve.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
> > [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold Johnson
> > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 12:28 PM
> > To: Joe Frank Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
> > Importance: Low
> >
> >
> > Do we really need to return to the conversation about "Kate"? I
> > understand Steve here is just now exploring this subject, and
> > that's his
> > prerogative, but personally I'd rather participate in a discussion
> > about
> > Joe's *current* work.
> >
> > Don't mind me; go ahead and talk about Kate to your heart's
> > content...I
> > know it's a fascinating subject...
> >
> > Harold J.
> >
> > On 5/1/05, Steve Schneider <steve@theavocadopapers.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Well -- I guess I should qualify what I said about my uneasiness
> >> referring to Joe Frank as "Joe": I realize that it's a convention on
> >> lists like these to refer to the subject of the list by his or her
> >> first name, and that that doesn't necessarily imply a familiarity
> >> that
> >>
> >
> >
> >> isn't there. So I don't mean to suggest that anyone on this list is
> >> doing that. Maybe it's particularly tricky with a "subject" such as
> >> J.F., since one might be inclined after listening to dozens and
> >> dozens
> >>
> >
> >
> >> of his shows -- and particularly Karma-like shows -- to think that
> >> one
> >>
> >
> >
> >> "knows" him, since the shows are, at least seemingly, so personal in
> >> nature.
> >>
> >> Anyway: Kate: anyone? No takers? K, whether there are or not,
> >> here's
> >> another question to ponder, and it doesn't require speculation about
> >> someone's personal life: what do you think is J.F.'s feeling about
> >> Jack Kornfield? As far as I know -- and I could be wrong -- J.K.'s
> >> first appearance on a J.F. show is in the first Karma program. I
> >> SWEAR that J.F. put a laugh track over that first appearance (yes,
> >> there is often audience laughter in K's segments, but this was more
> >> overt, and the laughter was at particularly inappropriate moments),
> >> and I proceeded, through a few more Karma shows, to think that J.F.
> >> had included the J.K. "reflections" as an example of a futile
> >> worldview. But that doesn't seem to be the case at all.
> >>
> >> The only time I've even ever heard J.F. refer to the J.K. segments
> >> was
> >> in an interview: he says something about his shows being "religious"
> >> in the sense that it contrasts the sacred and the profane (note:
> >> that's a paraphrase). With the sacred represented by Kornfield's
> >> lectures and the profane represented by "normal" people such as J.F.,
> >> Debi Mae West, and L. Block just dealing with life's struggles as
> >> best
> >>
> >
> >
> >> they can. I have to say, personally, that I find the Kornfield
> >> lectures to be my least favorite parts of the shows in which they
> >> appear; I hesitate, though, to fast-forward through them because the
> >> artist who created these shows put them there and I feel that I
> >> should
> >>
> >
> >
> >> therefore listen to them. But I find the other stuff -- the phone
> >> calls with L.B., D.M.W., J.F.'s mother, D. Rafkin, and others; the
> >> first-person narrations of the latest Kate drama; the
> >> reminiscences of
> >>
> >
> >
> >> things like the NYC blackout; etc. -- to be much more entertaining,
> >> interesting, enlightening, relevant, etc.
> >>
> >> Would love to know others' thoughts on this topic. And the Kate
> >> topic. Call me a gossip-monger; I don't think I am being one
> >> (although
> >>
> >
> >
> >> I will admit to a certain amount of gut-level curiosity).
> >>
> >> -- Steve.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
> >> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold
> >> Johnson
> >> Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 9:25 PM
> >> To: Joe Frank Mailing List
> >> Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Kate?
> >> Importance: Low
> >>
> >> Hi Steve,
> >>
> >> I haven't posted to this group a whole lot either, though I've been
> >> watching it off and on for a few years. I'm glad to see you've
> >> posted, especially since you seem to have taken the time to post a
> >> well-thought, intelligent and considerate post.
> >>
> >> So here's my thoughts: I don't believe there are any particular rules
> >> here; I would expect the common sense protocols common on many online
> >> forums. In other words, respect your neighbor, etc. Though I'd
> >> imagine many of us hold Joe Frank - or at the very least, his art
> >> - at
> >>
> >
> >
> >> high esteem, but I'm not about to say I worship him (yet; though
> >> if he
> >>
> >
> >
> >> starts a religion, I don't know, LOL).
> >>
> >> I find it funny that you say you're not quite comfortable
> >> referring to
> >> him as "Joe" yet; I've often had the same feeling. When I refer to
> >> him here or on one of my blogs - let's say I'm writing some
> >> commentary
> >>
> >
> >
> >> about storytelling artists or something - I'm inclined to refer to
> >> the
> >>
> >
> >
> >> man by his full name, too. I believe it's because I don't wish to be
> >> perceived as one of those nutjobs who talks about a
> >> celebrity/artist/whomever as if they *really* know her. (I'm not
> >> referring to any of you posting to this list - except for you, of
> >> course, Larry Block. That's a joke,
> >> LOL.)
> >>
> >> Example: Following is a link to some commentary I recently posted in
> >> which I mentioned Joe Frank; you'll, however, that I *crossed the
> >> line* and referred to him by his forename:
> >>
> >> http://www.somethingthathappened.com/2005/04/hi-reed-i-want-to-
> >> express
> >> -t
> >> o-you-how.html
> >>
> >> That's all I have to say for now. I'm off to watch an episode of
> >> Deadwood I picked up at Goodwill; I hear this show's pretty decent.
> >>
> >> Harold J. Johnson
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Joe Frank Mailing List
> >> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> >> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Joe Frank Mailing List
> > joe-frank-list@armory.com
> > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Joe Frank Mailing List
> > joe-frank-list@armory.com
> > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
From harold.johnson at gmail.com Sun May 1 20:01:39 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Sun May 1 20:01:42 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 3
In-Reply-To: <2dbaf4d805050117293b44d1cd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e1.129e485f.2fa6c246@aol.com>
<2dbaf4d805050117293b44d1cd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d80505012001284db686@mail.gmail.com>
Apparently this fellow Steve Schneider failed to recognize my humor,
as he's contacted me offlist to chide me about my repartee with Larry.
I won't post his private words here, since that would be
inappropriate - in fact, alot of folks would feel the manner in which
he contacted me was offensive (thought I'm not offended; in fact, I
kind of enjoyed Steve's message in some ways, though in others not so
much. It's difficult to for me to tell how much he's joking/getting
on my case since I'm so hopped up on caffeine).
Then again, perhaps I'm the only one laughing. It's difficult to
tell, as I also had a codeine earlier today, one of those rare treats.
In any case, before receiving Steve's provocative message, I had
already contacted Larry (Mr. Block) to clarify in case I had offended.
I won't speak for Larry, but I don't think he's had enough of me yet,
and I'm guessing he'll stick around.
Maybe it's best we all lay off the substance-abuse references for
awhile. If anyone here needs help, it's me. I've been drinking an
abnormal amount of coffee than usual, and Steve was perceptive in an
earlier post - it's Peet's (though certainly not decaffeinated). I
really have a problem here, folks, so please bear with me. Perhaps
I'll do best to stand back to stand back and watch the action for
awhile, at least until I switch to green tea or something.
So please, continue with the conversation...
Harold
On 5/1/05, Harold Johnson <harold.johnson@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hold on, there, Larry - I didn't mention anything about single malts!
> However, I will add this: I don't know what's worse, having to piss
> all day from caffeine or having to puke at least once a day from
> booze. It's all a matter of perspective, vaya con Dios. (My dad's
> name is Harold, by the way, and he's a good fellow, too.)
>
> Harold
>
> On 5/1/05, LBlockD@aol.com <LBlockD@aol.com> wrote:
> >
> > I have been reluctant to enter the fray here, but Harold's little
> > assumptions about me - and Joe's work - has given me pause. This is the
> > first time I've joined a web-chat and perhaps the last; there is such a
> > potential for bullying and bragging. Don't you agree, Harold? As for
> > single-malts and AA meetings, let me say - as Winston Churchill did - that
> > I've gotten a lot more out of scotch than scotch ever got out of me. How
> > ironic: my father was named Harold and it's my son's middle name. Larry
> > Block
> > _______________________________________________
> > Joe Frank Mailing List
> > joe-frank-list@armory.com
> > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
> >
> >
> >
>
From justin at kempton.com Sun May 1 20:01:57 2005
From: justin at kempton.com (Justin Kempton)
Date: Sun May 1 20:02:14 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Jack Kornfield
In-Reply-To: <2dbaf4d805050117435acae8ec@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001801c54e9b$268428e0$6b00a8c0@AVOCADO2> <9A907F07-34BA-41F6-94E6-4B170C305712@cradock.net>
<2dbaf4d805050117435acae8ec@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <42759825.8010308@kempton.com>
To all,
I can't help but enter a few soothing words of my own about Jack
Kornfield and Joe Franks inclusion of him. Since I was a not initiated
into Joe Frank until after Karma became a regular topic spoken in that
tiny sincere, and slightly comical Kornfield way, I have fresh insight
for you older timers. It works.
To some extent everyone on the show is a 'Buddha' in various masks. Joe
brings democracy into the kingdom of heavenly airwaves, giving license
to all voices concerned to be heard in marked time. As an artist Joe
Frank creates a marvelous patterned tapestry of voices, with a message
that pushes beyond some simple moral into more like a feeling or vibe.
Whenever I listen to these programs, that vibe brings me closer to a
true sense of spirituality than any preacher or gurus ever has. Art is
the mystery, the holy of holy, the void, the great unknown. In my
opinion, Joe brings that through brilliantly, and Kornfield is yet
another pattern at his disposal.
Further, as one who 'got into' Kornfield through Joe Frank, I can
confess that Joe Frank's versions are much more mainstream entertaining,
though perhaps not as informative in the 4 noble truths or 8 fold path.
Afterall, Kornfield is a buddhist, and his contribution is to bring a
western understanding to an eastern religion. More and more Buddhism and
new age spirituality are becoming the religion of the west (especially
California). Kornfield is doing his part, and Joe Frank, intentionally
or not, did his part too in expanding this movement of ideas.
That's all I have to say. Thanks for the stimulating dialog, keep it up!
- Justin
From harold.johnson at gmail.com Sun May 1 20:11:50 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Sun May 1 20:11:54 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Check out The Avocado Papers
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d805050120115c5cee8d@mail.gmail.com>
You all should check out Steve's website, by the way, especially is
you like avocados:
http://www.theavocadopapers.com/
It's perplexing in the Jack Handy-interesting kind of way. Just don't
get on his bad side or he'll make you eat rotten guacamole or
something. (I'm not trying to be humorous, so don't even groan.)
Harold :)
From spblat at gmail.com Sun May 1 20:59:07 2005
From: spblat at gmail.com (Will Irace)
Date: Sun May 1 20:59:15 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Kornfield, Kate, Larry
Message-ID: <d5da6b4b05050120597e859538@mail.gmail.com>
I've been enjoying the extra volume the last few days. Have to put in
my few cents' worth:
On Kornfield: I find him soothing. The turmoil we hear from Joe,
Larry and others during the Karma era is perfectly balanced by Jack's
teachings. I recently became interested in Buddhism and find its
concepts tremendously appealing. I don't think Joe (yes, I think of
him as "Joe," and the card I mailed addressed him as such.
Inappropriate?) takes issue with Jack or finds his lectures to be
anything other than inspiring. If we could find the peace Jack is
trying to lead us to, we'd be better off, right? Conflict, irony, and
seemingly incompatible concepts: this is what sucked me in during the
Somewhere Out There days, and discovering the Karma series just last
year only deepened my gratitude that the world has produced Joe Frank.
Larry: I am very glad you are here. You have written that you're not
a frequent participant in these sorts of online exchanges. I'm here
to tell you that this is a relatively subdued and respectful (if very
odd) little corner of the internet. Stick around, we need you!
On Kate: wow. Catherine Zeta-Jones? Wouldn't that be something! We'll
probably never know, but that doesn't keep me from wanting to.
Cheers,
--W
Visit the Joe Frank Wiki! http://www.jfwiki.org
From majestic_cheese at yahoo.com Sun May 1 22:24:47 2005
From: majestic_cheese at yahoo.com (Larry Dunn)
Date: Sun May 1 22:26:20 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <200505011541.ac22986@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <20050502052447.14119.qmail@web30008.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
From: LBlockD@aol.com
>I think he's cool, but as arrogant as Wayne Dyer to
>suggest that his sense of things is available to
>me just because he says so. It's a kind of crypto-
>fascism, dontcha think?
No, because that's not what he says. He doesn't say
that his "sense of things" is "available" to you
"because he says so."
And even if he did, that wouldn't necessarily be
"crypto-fascism."
Fascism, needless to say, does not encompass any
belief that some things are true.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
From BILLMILOSZ at aol.com Mon May 2 00:23:42 2005
From: BILLMILOSZ at aol.com (BILLMILOSZ@aol.com)
Date: Mon May 2 00:23:57 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] J. Kornfield
Message-ID: <f.441bf011.2fa72f7e@aol.com>
Yeah the Kornfield things are too upbeat for a good Joe Show.... (just
kidding)- As religions* go, Buddhism is cool, I guess; I'm a lapsed physicist
myself. Detachment is the key to release from suffering, I suppose. It can also be
a release from everything grand and beautiful about being a human.
As a pessimist - a downright NEGATIVE S. O. B., depressed to boot- I am often
SUSPICIOUS of anyone who seems to be SO DAMN POSITIVE - I either suspect they
are out to swindle money out of the gullible lost or that they are too low on
intellect to realize how F**CKED everything really is. So in that sense, this
Kornfield thing spooks me. Hinayana, Mahayana, Yo Mama- WHATEVER, I've
learned not to trust people who smile too damn much.
"The only thing the preacher's got is the key to the shithouse door."
-----Wm. S. Burroughs
+++++++++++++++
* yeah I know Buddhism is a philosophy and not a religion in the strict
sense.... but Kornfield IS a preacher.
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From molokoman1 at mac.com Mon May 2 10:05:46 2005
From: molokoman1 at mac.com (Darwin Green)
Date: Mon May 2 10:05:52 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] J. Kornfield
In-Reply-To: <f.441bf011.2fa72f7e@aol.com>
References: <f.441bf011.2fa72f7e@aol.com>
Message-ID: <e1922713033db27af8aebab24ca3e71e@mac.com>
I'll chime in here since I just got back to work from the weekend and
found all these e-mails in my in-box.
Joe's shows, to me, each have a theme to them, some of them more
obscure than others. The Kornfield segments, at least most of the
time, tie in with a theme that Joe presents whether in an indirect
sense or in a way that counterpoints what Joe has to say. It's almost
like Joe's presentation serves to produce a zen-like understanding of
it, not entirely good or bad, positive or negative.
On May 2, 2005, at 12:23 AM, BILLMILOSZ@aol.com wrote:
> Yeah the Kornfield things are too upbeat for a good Joe Show.... (just
> kidding)- As religions* go, Buddhism is cool, I guess; I'm a lapsed
> physicist myself.? Detachment is the key to release from suffering, I
> suppose. It can also be a release from everything grand and beautiful
> about being a human.
>
> As a pessimist - a downright NEGATIVE S. O. B., depressed to boot- I
> am often SUSPICIOUS of anyone who seems to be SO DAMN POSITIVE - I
> either suspect they are out to swindle money out of the gullible lost
> or that they are too low on intellect to realize how F**CKED
> everything really is. So in that sense, this Kornfield thing spooks
> me.? Hinayana, Mahayana, Yo Mama- WHATEVER, I've learned not to trust
> people who smile too damn much.
>
> "The only thing the preacher's got is the key to the shithouse door."
> -----Wm. S. Burroughs
>
>
> +++++++++++++++
> * yeah I know Buddhism is a philosophy and not a religion in the
> strict sense.... but Kornfield IS a
> preacher._______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
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From auntiehistamine at yahoo.com Mon May 2 15:13:02 2005
From: auntiehistamine at yahoo.com (auntiehistamine)
Date: Mon May 2 15:14:38 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield
In-Reply-To: <200505021200.ac28866@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <20050502221302.41195.qmail@web52002.mail.yahoo.com>
I've recently rejoined this mailing list after an absence of maybe 5
years or more. I'd like to say that so far I have enjoyed the banter
immensely.
When I first heard the Jack Kornfield material in Joe's shows, my
initial reaction was that it was hokey. I wondered why Joe was
including it. The only answer I was able to come up with was that Joe
must be somehow poking fun at the ideas.
The more I listened and thought about it however, the more I became
convinced that this was not the case. When Joe pokes fun at something,
he makes his point and moves on. Joe kept including Jack's material
however, so I thought that he must be doing it for other reasons. It
seems to me that Joe would not continue to use Jack's lectures, unless
Joe found something in them that he was interested in himself.
As I began to pay more attention to what Jack was saying, I found that
I began to enjoy his illustrative stories more and more. If Jack was
simply putting forth his ideas, they would not have nearly the punch
that they do when he couches them in the story format. His stories make
his ideas easy to identify with and remember.
The storytelling quality is the primary reason I feel Jack's lectures
"work" in Joe's shows. Both of them tell stories that make us think.
When the materials are juxtaposed the way that Joe presents them, I
think they compliment and add to one another.
And yes, I have referred to Joe and Jack by their first names. I can't
presume to imagine that I know them personally, but when a person tells
good stories, especially about himself, you DO feel that you know them
on some level. That's what being a fan is about.
Pat Nighswander
From rholland356 at yahoo.com Mon May 2 22:36:27 2005
From: rholland356 at yahoo.com (Robert Holland)
Date: Mon May 2 22:38:00 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <102.604153b3.2fa6cb69@aol.com>
Message-ID: <20050503053627.38471.qmail@web32506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
My office is in a dumpy little retail center where my
neighbors are a Korean Herbal Therapy shop and a
headquarters for Buddist movement, among other, more
typical merchants of insurance, hearing aids and
dental work.
One day I needed more electricity to my office, and
hired an electrician to run the lines. Now, my
landlord works tenement-style, and he ignored my
requests to send someone out to guide my electrician.
So I opened the wire closets and poked around with the
various unlabeled circuit breakers.
I did find the switches to my office and got the work
done, but in the process I switched off power to the
herbal shop, the Buddists and the other merchants. The
only people who complained to me were the Buddists,
because their computer didn't want to restart right
away. Oh, they gave me nasty glares when I expressed
the karma of the situation--and that they should call
Dell tech support.
The Koreans, on the other hand, just took the day off,
opened their doors and smoked down some of their
inventory. I think they had the better approach.
I found Jack Kornfield's bits in Joe's works to be an
acquired taste, and he grew on me in that context--as
a juxtaposition to the reality that Joe and Larry were
presenting. He reminds me of my marriage
counselor--smooth-talking me toward doing the hard
work of relationship repair. And really, I don't think
the R. Lee Ermy approach would work well in these
types of spiritual situations.
Robert
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
From justin at kempton.com Tue May 3 10:15:33 2005
From: justin at kempton.com (Justin Kempton)
Date: Tue May 3 10:15:38 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <20050503053627.38471.qmail@web32506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050503053627.38471.qmail@web32506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4277B1B5.6000601@kempton.com>
A few thoughts on buddhists, and other people seeking peace.
Robert Holland wrote:
>the only people who complained to me were the Buddists,
>because their computer didn't want to restart right
>away. Oh, they gave me nasty glares when I expressed
>the karma of the situation--and that they should call
>Dell tech support.
>
>
This is not a surprise. I've had similar experiences. Have you ever
heard the old joke "Anyone who goes to see a psychatrist needs to have
his head examined"... Buddhism is not so much a religion as it is psycho
therapy. People seeking peace don't already have peace.
Just because Kornfield talks with peace, does not mean listeners are
expected to be transformed into Kornfield. There is a 'path'.
Buddhism in the West is a fairly new thing, and for that reason almost
more pure. 'We' are inventing a new sect, due to our language, and also
due to the nature of how we see reality. Just as Catholicism was
transformed when it reached Mexico, Buddhism is transformed as it
reaches California and the United States. fortune cookies were invented
in Los Angles, so were flour tortillas, and the California Roll. There
are and will continue to be, many voices representing the philosophy of
Asia, Kornfield being one of them.
Joe's inclusion of Kornfield is brilliant. When people talk, they are
talking to someone, seeking validation, or council, or dominance.
Talking about it, is not the same thing as doing it --- but, then again,
it's a wonderful artform.
From spblat at gmail.com Tue May 3 10:43:24 2005
From: spblat at gmail.com (Will Irace)
Date: Tue May 3 10:43:28 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <4277B1B5.6000601@kempton.com>
References: <20050503053627.38471.qmail@web32506.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
<4277B1B5.6000601@kempton.com>
Message-ID: <d5da6b4b05050310433e6124da@mail.gmail.com>
If we accept the premise that we need a religious/spiritual life in
order to face mortality (among other things), I'll take "to relieve
suffering you need only awaken" over "confess your sins or face a
vengeful God" any day. Or am I oversimplifying?
Will "visit www.jfwiki.org" Irace
On 5/3/05, Justin Kempton <justin@kempton.com> wrote:
> This is not a surprise. I've had similar experiences. Have you ever
> heard the old joke "Anyone who goes to see a psychatrist needs to have
> his head examined"... Buddhism is not so much a religion as it is psycho
> therapy. People seeking peace don't already have peace.
>
> Just because Kornfield talks with peace, does not mean listeners are
> expected to be transformed into Kornfield. There is a 'path'.
>
> Buddhism in the West is a fairly new thing, and for that reason almost
> more pure. 'We' are inventing a new sect, due to our language, and also
> due to the nature of how we see reality. Just as Catholicism was
> transformed when it reached Mexico, Buddhism is transformed as it
> reaches California and the United States. fortune cookies were invented
> in Los Angles, so were flour tortillas, and the California Roll. There
> are and will continue to be, many voices representing the philosophy of
> Asia, Kornfield being one of them.
>
> Joe's inclusion of Kornfield is brilliant. When people talk, they are
> talking to someone, seeking validation, or council, or dominance.
> Talking about it, is not the same thing as doing it --- but, then again,
> it's a wonderful artform.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
From billmilosz at aol.com Tue May 3 11:15:17 2005
From: billmilosz at aol.com (billmilosz@aol.com)
Date: Tue May 3 11:15:31 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 4
In-Reply-To: <d5da6b4b05050310433e6124da@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20050503053627.38471.qmail@web32506.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4277B1B5.6000601@kempton.com>
<d5da6b4b05050310433e6124da@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8C71E233176CA28-FA4-15D6@MBLK-M08.sysops.aol.com>
It seems to me that Buddhism is more secular than most Westerners expect.... while "village Buddhism" has it's various gods and demons, and there is a huge layer of tradition and structure overlaid on "institutional Buddhism", at it's core, Buddhism is a secular philosophy and while it deals with Big Questions, isn't religious at all. It's a kind of philosophic psychology. We in the West tend to first encounter Buddhism when we are "seeking" -which it seems Americans engage in when the "lifestyle quick fix du jour" falls short of delivering a state of constant ecstasy. Because we encounter Buddhism in this way we see it as "offering answers" like a religion. However, if you think of it more like a form of depth psychology, you can perhaps see it in a more natural context. You wouldn't consider Jungian psychology (for example) a "religion" any more than you would electrical engineering or linguistics, and Buddhism in it's essence is no different. It arose out of a deep study of the human existential condition, and while certain of it's insights can lead to practices which lessen alienation, it is not a religion in the sense that Westerners understand the term.
-----Original Message-----
From: Will Irace <spblat@gmail.com>
To: Joe Frank Mailing List <joe-frank-list@armory.com>
Sent: Tue, 3 May 2005 10:43:24 -0700
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 4
If we accept the premise that we need a religious/spiritual life in
order to face mortality (among other things), I'll take "to relieve
suffering you need only awaken" over "confess your sins or face a
vengeful God" any day. Or am I oversimplifying?
Will "visit www.jfwiki.org" Irace
On 5/3/05, Justin Kempton <justin@kempton.com> wrote:
> This is not a surprise. I've had similar experiences. Have you ever
> heard the old joke "Anyone who goes to see a psychatrist needs to have
> his head examined"... Buddhism is not so much a religion as it is psycho
> therapy. People seeking peace don't already have peace.
>
> Just because Kornfield talks with peace, does not mean listeners are
> expected to be transformed into Kornfield. There is a 'path'.
>
> Buddhism in the West is a fairly new thing, and for that reason almost
> more pure. 'We' are inventing a new sect, due to our language, and also
> due to the nature of how we see reality. Just as Catholicism was
> transformed when it reached Mexico, Buddhism is transformed as it
> reaches California and the United States. fortune cookies were invented
> in Los Angles, so were flour tortillas, and the California Roll. There
> are and will continue to be, many voices representing the philosophy of
> Asia, Kornfield being one of them.
>
> Joe's inclusion of Kornfield is brilliant. When people talk, they are
> talking to someone, seeking validation, or council, or dominance.
> Talking about it, is not the same thing as doing it --- but, then again,
> it's a wonderful artform.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
_______________________________________________
Joe Frank Mailing List
joe-frank-list@armory.com
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
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From mrdubway at hotmail.com Tue May 3 21:54:00 2005
From: mrdubway at hotmail.com (mike h)
Date: Tue May 3 21:54:10 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield
In-Reply-To: <20050502221302.41195.qmail@web52002.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY102-DAV6E1400AC58B66C283F7B2CC190@phx.gbl>
Jack Kornfield is inspiring, I never even considered that Joe was being
sarcastic, but only Joe Frank knows. Joe led me to Jack's work and I listen
to both guys.
I heard Jack Kornfield speak a few times at Spirit Rock in Marin County
where I believe you can still catch him occasionally. That place is
ridiculous in its beauty. Next time I go I will ask him about Joe Frank. Or
probably not, what's the point?
It was equally inspiring to finally see Joe perform a couple of years ago.
Jack and Joe are the only "spoken word" performers I listen to. But I am
open to suggestions!
On 5/2/05 3:13 PM, "auntiehistamine" <auntiehistamine@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've recently rejoined this mailing list after an absence of maybe 5
> years or more. I'd like to say that so far I have enjoyed the banter
> immensely.
>
> When I first heard the Jack Kornfield material in Joe's shows, my
> initial reaction was that it was hokey. I wondered why Joe was
> including it. The only answer I was able to come up with was that Joe
> must be somehow poking fun at the ideas.
>
> The more I listened and thought about it however, the more I became
> convinced that this was not the case. When Joe pokes fun at something,
> he makes his point and moves on. Joe kept including Jack's material
> however, so I thought that he must be doing it for other reasons. It
> seems to me that Joe would not continue to use Jack's lectures, unless
> Joe found something in them that he was interested in himself.
>
> As I began to pay more attention to what Jack was saying, I found that
> I began to enjoy his illustrative stories more and more. If Jack was
> simply putting forth his ideas, they would not have nearly the punch
> that they do when he couches them in the story format. His stories make
> his ideas easy to identify with and remember.
>
> The storytelling quality is the primary reason I feel Jack's lectures
> "work" in Joe's shows. Both of them tell stories that make us think.
> When the materials are juxtaposed the way that Joe presents them, I
> think they compliment and add to one another.
>
> And yes, I have referred to Joe and Jack by their first names. I can't
> presume to imagine that I know them personally, but when a person tells
> good stories, especially about himself, you DO feel that you know them
> on some level. That's what being a fan is about.
>
> Pat Nighswander
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
From karenladeeda at aol.com Tue May 3 23:23:45 2005
From: karenladeeda at aol.com (karenladeeda@aol.com)
Date: Tue May 3 23:23:55 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield
In-Reply-To: <BAY102-DAV6E1400AC58B66C283F7B2CC190@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8C71E88F5DBECD7-904-33C47@FWM-D42.sysops.aol.com>
I found Jack through Joe as well. I have found Jack to be really inspiring and I really had thoughts that Joe dug him as well. which ever way it went, I am glad that I heard him on joes shows.
karen
-----Original Message-----
From: mike h <mrdubway@hotmail.com>
To: Joe Frank Mailing List <joe-frank-list@armory.com>
Sent: Tue, 03 May 2005 21:54:00 -0700
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield
Jack Kornfield is inspiring, I never even considered that Joe was being
sarcastic, but only Joe Frank knows. Joe led me to Jack's work and I listen
to both guys.
I heard Jack Kornfield speak a few times at Spirit Rock in Marin County
where I believe you can still catch him occasionally. That place is
ridiculous in its beauty. Next time I go I will ask him about Joe Frank. Or
probably not, what's the point?
It was equally inspiring to finally see Joe perform a couple of years ago.
Jack and Joe are the only "spoken word" performers I listen to. But I am
open to suggestions!
On 5/2/05 3:13 PM, "auntiehistamine" <auntiehistamine@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've recently rejoined this mailing list after an absence of maybe 5
> years or more. I'd like to say that so far I have enjoyed the banter
> immensely.
>
> When I first heard the Jack Kornfield material in Joe's shows, my
> initial reaction was that it was hokey. I wondered why Joe was
> including it. The only answer I was able to come up with was that Joe
> must be somehow poking fun at the ideas.
>
> The more I listened and thought about it however, the more I became
> convinced that this was not the case. When Joe pokes fun at something,
> he makes his point and moves on. Joe kept including Jack's material
> however, so I thought that he must be doing it for other reasons. It
> seems to me that Joe would not continue to use Jack's lectures, unless
> Joe found something in them that he was interested in himself.
>
> As I began to pay more attention to what Jack was saying, I found that
> I began to enjoy his illustrative stories more and more. If Jack was
> simply putting forth his ideas, they would not have nearly the punch
> that they do when he couches them in the story format. His stories make
> his ideas easy to identify with and remember.
>
> The storytelling quality is the primary reason I feel Jack's lectures
> "work" in Joe's shows. Both of them tell stories that make us think.
> When the materials are juxtaposed the way that Joe presents them, I
> think they compliment and add to one another.
>
> And yes, I have referred to Joe and Jack by their first names. I can't
> presume to imagine that I know them personally, but when a person tells
> good stories, especially about himself, you DO feel that you know them
> on some level. That's what being a fan is about.
>
> Pat Nighswander
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
_______________________________________________
Joe Frank Mailing List
joe-frank-list@armory.com
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
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From majestic_cheese at yahoo.com Wed May 4 17:41:06 2005
From: majestic_cheese at yahoo.com (Larry Dunn)
Date: Wed May 4 17:42:42 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield
In-Reply-To: <200505041200.ac28508@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <20050505004106.33196.qmail@web30006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
From: mike h <mrdubway@hotmail.com>
>Jack Kornfield is inspiring, I never even considered
>that Joe was being sarcastic,
And with good reason.
> Next time I go I will ask him about Joe Frank. Or
>probably not, what's the point?
Idle curiosity? It's as good a reason as any to do something.
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From uhohjf at yahoo.com Mon May 9 00:30:26 2005
From: uhohjf at yahoo.com (B T)
Date: Mon May 9 00:31:59 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] ONE week left!! --Joe Frank appreciation voicemail
1-888-220-7523
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050509073026.69119.qmail@web31907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
1-888-220-7523 24/6
Dear listeners,
If you haven't phoned in to leave a message FOR Joe or ABOUT his programs yet,
this is your last chance. I will only be able to keep the 888 number up until
11:59pm Friday night (May 13)-- 6 more days.
So, for those putting it off until they get their NPR pledge off first, are
still in the Forbidden City trying to contact the American Consulate, in the
middle of their Everest climb on Lhotse Face at 24500 ft looking for a working
phone, about to sign their body to Gunther von Hagens, filling in their last
bubble on the USMLE, or who are self-conscious about their voice, don't know
what to say, have voicemail-fright... now is the time to do the unthinkable and
face your fears and find your voice.
Know that Joe will be at his Ikea sawdust desk, pushing play on his new Marantz
PMD 660 with his headphones on, and listening. Yes, listening this time...
with an occasional grin of disdain.
Remember, there is no time limit short or long, call as often as you like
(there was a caller who called twice to continue their tale), don't worry if
you messed up-- that's the beauty of editing, just pick yourself up and
continue. Stage fright? Just map yourself out topics you want to cover,
breath, then pretend the receiver is your ex-lover willing to take you in for
another go despite your inadequacies.
Messages so far that were for Joe (option #2) were forwarded to the
joefrank.com team. The rest will be conglomerated into a program soon (option
#1).
Thanks for reading.
Bob deux
--- Bob deux <uhohjf@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Dear loyal and new listeners of Joe Frank,
>
> I have been meaning to create something like this for quite a very long time,
> and it would seem very appropriate to get it started immediately now.
>
> I have set up an 888 voicemail number with unlimited minutes for listeners to
> call and leave messages/anecdotes along the lines of:
>
> -how Joe's program has touched your life, good or bad
> -how you've come to hear of Joe's work
> -how Joe has created some meaning or void in your life
> -etc etc, though any comments/ponderings are welcome
>
> My goal was and still is to compile these and mix them with Joe's droning
> ambience muse and make it freely available to both Joe and fans, with the
> sole purpose of showing how much Joe has indeed influenced our lives--
> good and bad.
>
> In light of recent news, there is also an option to choose for those who
> would like to leave a get well message for Joe. These specific messages will
> be forwarded to the Joe Frank team of www.joefrank.com and therefore be
> made available to Joe himself.
>
> This is not to detract from cards or letters you plan on sending to him, but
> to add another format of communication, a format we are all too familiar with
> from his shows. And who knows, maybe it is cathartic to light a match and
> watch and smell the flames engulf the letters in a studio.
>
> So feel free to call 24/7: 1-888-220-7523*
>
> Bob deux
>
> *Note: This is created by me, a long time listener of Joe Frank. I am not
> affiliated with him or www.joefrank.com in any other way, shape, or form.
__________________________________
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From awkwardgrace at yahoo.com Tue May 10 18:45:45 2005
From: awkwardgrace at yahoo.com (Tom McDonald)
Date: Tue May 10 18:47:18 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe Frank article in Index magazine
Message-ID: <20050511014545.20994.qmail@web50505.mail.yahoo.com>
The current issue of Index magazine has a kind of
interview with Joe Frank, coupled with atmospheric
photos of the man.
I found it a bit of a disappointment--I wanted to hear
his honest thoughts on different facets of his life
and work, but that's not you get. Many of his replies
are hilarious gems, but they are gems in keeping with
his more fanciful radio monologues. I take it this was
not a face to face interview but perhaps an emailed
conversation.
Maybe since this was the first time I've read rather
than listened to Joe Frank, it struck me that he's
alot like Don DeLillo. Similar sense of paranoia, of
the absurd, of the new and fascinating methods we've
developed for alienating ourselves. The impeccable
rhythm, the mix of humor and sadness. Been a while
since I've read DeLillo intensely, but I dearly loved
"White Noise" or "Running Dogs," both from the middle
of career (early to mid-80s).
Tom
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From uhohjf at yahoo.com Tue May 10 22:28:51 2005
From: uhohjf at yahoo.com (B T)
Date: Tue May 10 22:30:23 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe news on site
Message-ID: <20050511052851.57042.qmail@web31906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Dear friends,
I just saw this on the site today.
It's so difficult to be optimistic when we're all in the dark. Perhaps Joe is
too. I hope he knows there're a lot of people out there thinking of him right
now.
Perhaps he's thinking that this experience will be a compelling program one of
these days... It reminds me of The Other Side series program where he
interviewed a gentleman about his heart condition and midway way through things
became intriguing as the thought that it _would_ be more compelling if only the
gentleman's story or condition was worse than it was appearing. This could
indeed only be with Joe and his work-- frank honesty in every sense.
Bob
Here's the number to send your thoughts again: 1-888-220-7523
===========from www.joefrank.com=============
May 10, 2005
Joe Frank wishes to thank all of you who have written him such caring and
compassionate emails and cards. It means a lot to him and he wishes he were in
a position to respond to each one.
As you know, Joe is ill. During this difficult time, we ask you for your
prayers.
Best,
The Joe Frank Team
__________________________________
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From harold.johnson at gmail.com Tue May 10 22:54:30 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Tue May 10 22:54:39 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe news on site
In-Reply-To: <20050511052851.57042.qmail@web31906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050511052851.57042.qmail@web31906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d80505102254598b2f40@mail.gmail.com>
"Frank" honesty...pun intended?
I sure hope Joe is okay.
Harold
On 5/10/05, B T <uhohjf@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Dear friends,
> I just saw this on the site today.
>
> It's so difficult to be optimistic when we're all in the dark. Perhaps Joe is
> too. I hope he knows there're a lot of people out there thinking of him right
> now.
>
> Perhaps he's thinking that this experience will be a compelling program one of
> these days... It reminds me of The Other Side series program where he
> interviewed a gentleman about his heart condition and midway way through things
> became intriguing as the thought that it _would_ be more compelling if only the
> gentleman's story or condition was worse than it was appearing. This could
> indeed only be with Joe and his work-- frank honesty in every sense.
>
> Bob
>
> Here's the number to send your thoughts again: 1-888-220-7523
>
> ===========from www.joefrank.com=============
> May 10, 2005
>
> Joe Frank wishes to thank all of you who have written him such caring and
> compassionate emails and cards. It means a lot to him and he wishes he were in
> a position to respond to each one.
>
> As you know, Joe is ill. During this difficult time, we ask you for your
> prayers.
>
> Best,
> The Joe Frank Team
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
From auntiehistamine at yahoo.com Thu May 12 20:24:49 2005
From: auntiehistamine at yahoo.com (auntiehistamine)
Date: Thu May 12 20:26:26 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] WFMU Joe Shows
In-Reply-To: <200505111200.ac29167@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <20050513032449.54865.qmail@web52008.mail.yahoo.com>
Earlier tonight I listened to the weekly WFMU broadcast of Joe's past
shows. They aired "Remember When". Next week's show is listed as being
"Dirge".
I've looked these two shows up on several Joe resources on the web, and
I can't find any information about them. Does anyone know what year
they were done and what series they were part of?
From joefranklist at amalon.com Thu May 12 21:49:44 2005
From: joefranklist at amalon.com (David Gutierrez)
Date: Thu May 12 21:51:55 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] WFMU Joe Shows
In-Reply-To: <20050513032449.54865.qmail@web52008.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20050513032449.54865.qmail@web52008.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <428431E8.7080106@amalon.com>
I've noticed that WFMU likes to rename Joe's shows for some reason. I
have no idea why.
When I pledged to WFMU during last year's marathon, I received two CDs
that were labelled "Loverman" and something else I don't remember at the
moment. When I popped the CDs in, they were not the shows I expected. In
writing to their support department, they told me that the CD were
properly labelled according to the name they were given when they were
originally aired on WMFU. Go figure...
Dave
auntiehistamine wrote:
>Earlier tonight I listened to the weekly WFMU broadcast of Joe's past
>shows. They aired "Remember When". Next week's show is listed as being
>"Dirge".
>
>I've looked these two shows up on several Joe resources on the web, and
>I can't find any information about them. Does anyone know what year
>they were done and what series they were part of?
>_______________________________________________
>Joe Frank Mailing List
>joe-frank-list@armory.com
>http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
>
From uhohjf at yahoo.com Fri May 13 07:14:16 2005
From: uhohjf at yahoo.com (B T)
Date: Fri May 13 07:16:12 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] LAST DAY --Joe Frank appreciation voicemail
1-888-220-7523
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050513141416.77956.qmail@web31914.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Dear Joe Frank listeners,
There's little more than 16 hours left. This voicemail number will be defunct
at around MIDNIGHT (give or take an hour or two) Pacific Standard Time, today
FRIDAY.
You know what to do.
Thanks all for contributing thus far.
Bob deux
===Sent April 15=====
Dear loyal and new listeners of Joe Frank,
I have been meaning to create something like this for quite a very long time,
and it would seem very appropriate to get it started immediately now.
I have set up an 888 voicemail number with unlimited minutes for listeners to
call and leave messages/anecdotes along the lines of:
-how Joe's program has touched your life, good or bad
-how you've come to hear of Joe's work
-how Joe has created some meaning or void in your life
-etc etc, though any comments/ponderings are welcome
My goal was and still is to compile these and mix them with Joe's droning
ambience muse and make it freely available to both Joe and fans, with the sole
purpose of showing how much Joe has indeed influenced our lives-- good and bad.
In light of recent news, there is also an option to choose for those who would
like to leave a get well message for Joe. These specific messages will be
forwarded to the Joe Frank team of www.joefrank.com and therefore be made
available to Joe himself.
This is not to detract from cards or letters you plan on sending to him, but to
add another format of communication, a format we are all too familiar with from
his shows. And who knows, maybe it is cathartic to light a match and watch and
smell the flames engulf the letters in a studio.
So feel free to call 24/7: 1-888-220-7523*
Bob deux
*Note: This is created by me, a long time listener of Joe Frank. I am not
affiliated with him or www.joefrank.com in any other way, shape, or form.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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From uhohjf at yahoo.com Fri May 13 07:19:55 2005
From: uhohjf at yahoo.com (B T)
Date: Fri May 13 07:21:32 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] LAST DAY @ 4:00pm PST--Joe Frank appreciation
voicemail 1-888-220-7523
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050513141955.41570.qmail@web31909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Sorry, better make that 9 hours left, defunct at 4:00pm Pacific Standard Time,
today, FRIDAY.
Enough. Bob
==========
Dear Joe Frank listeners,
There's little more than 16 hours left. This voicemail number will be defunct
at around MIDNIGHT (give or take an hour or two) Pacific Standard Time, today
FRIDAY.
You know what to do.
Thanks all for contributing thus far.
Bob deux
===Sent April 15=====
Dear loyal and new listeners of Joe Frank,
I have been meaning to create something like this for quite a very long time,
and it would seem very appropriate to get it started immediately now.
I have set up an 888 voicemail number with unlimited minutes for listeners to
call and leave messages/anecdotes along the lines of:
-how Joe's program has touched your life, good or bad
-how you've come to hear of Joe's work
-how Joe has created some meaning or void in your life
-etc etc, though any comments/ponderings are welcome
My goal was and still is to compile these and mix them with Joe's droning
ambience muse and make it freely available to both Joe and fans, with the sole
purpose of showing how much Joe has indeed influenced our lives-- good and bad.
In light of recent news, there is also an option to choose for those who would
like to leave a get well message for Joe. These specific messages will be
forwarded to the Joe Frank team of www.joefrank.com and therefore be made
available to Joe himself.
This is not to detract from cards or letters you plan on sending to him, but to
add another format of communication, a format we are all too familiar with from
his shows. And who knows, maybe it is cathartic to light a match and watch and
smell the flames engulf the letters in a studio.
So feel free to call 24/7: 1-888-220-7523*
Bob deux
*Note: This is created by me, a long time listener of Joe Frank. I am not
affiliated with him or www.joefrank.com in any other way, shape, or form.
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
From shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu Fri May 13 11:36:21 2005
From: shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erik Shirokoff)
Date: Fri May 13 11:35:08 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] WFMU Joe Shows
In-Reply-To: <428431E8.7080106@amalon.com>
References: <20050513032449.54865.qmail@web52008.mail.yahoo.com>
<428431E8.7080106@amalon.com>
Message-ID: <20050513183621.GA27087@jabberwock.hopto.org>
KPFA seems to have confused Loverman and Clement at Christmas on their CDs. Perhaps there's a common cause?
I've certainly never heard of Remember When or Dirge. I'd love a couple sentences describing their content from someone in the signal area. We may be able to figure out whether they've been renamed or are previously unknown shows.
- Erik
On Fri, May 13, 2005 at 12:49:44AM -0400, David Gutierrez wrote:
> X-Original-To: shiro@localhost
> Delivered-To: shiro@localhost.localdomain
> Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 00:49:44 -0400
> From: David Gutierrez <joefranklist@amalon.com>
> Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] WFMU Joe Shows
> In-reply-to: <20050513032449.54865.qmail@web52008.mail.yahoo.com>
> To: Joe Frank Mailing List <joe-frank-list@armory.com>
> X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317)
> X-BeenThere: joe-frank-list@armory.com
> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
> Precedence: list
> Reply-To: Joe Frank Mailing List <joe-frank-list@armory.com>
> List-Id: Joe Frank Mailing List <joe-frank-list.armory.com>
> List-Unsubscribe: <http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list>,
> <mailto:joe-frank-list-request@armory.com?subject=unsubscribe>
> List-Archive: <http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list>
> List-Post: <mailto:joe-frank-list@armory.com>
> List-Help: <mailto:joe-frank-list-request@armory.com?subject=help>
> List-Subscribe: <http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list>,
> <mailto:joe-frank-list-request@armory.com?subject=subscribe>
> Errors-To: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
>
> I've noticed that WFMU likes to rename Joe's shows for some reason. I
> have no idea why.
>
> When I pledged to WFMU during last year's marathon, I received two CDs
> that were labelled "Loverman" and something else I don't remember at the
> moment. When I popped the CDs in, they were not the shows I expected. In
> writing to their support department, they told me that the CD were
> properly labelled according to the name they were given when they were
> originally aired on WMFU. Go figure...
>
> Dave
>
> auntiehistamine wrote:
>
> >Earlier tonight I listened to the weekly WFMU broadcast of Joe's past
> >shows. They aired "Remember When". Next week's show is listed as being
> >"Dirge".
> >
> >I've looked these two shows up on several Joe resources on the web, and
> >I can't find any information about them. Does anyone know what year
> >they were done and what series they were part of?
> >_______________________________________________
> >Joe Frank Mailing List
> >joe-frank-list@armory.com
> >http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
From tjh219 at nyu.edu Fri May 13 12:30:09 2005
From: tjh219 at nyu.edu (Tayt J Harlin)
Date: Fri May 13 12:30:29 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe's "Illness"
Message-ID: <1c1b47f1c1bf5d.1c1bf5d1c1b47f@nyu.edu>
Howdy.
Anyone know what the nature of Joe's present "illness" is? It seems
silly that's it's being kept a secret.
Anyway, I hope he recovers quickly.
Tayt
From uhohjf at yahoo.com Fri May 13 14:01:52 2005
From: uhohjf at yahoo.com (B T)
Date: Fri May 13 14:03:26 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe's "Illness"
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050513210152.48520.qmail@web31909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Dear Tayt,
Yes, listening to him all these years do make us feel really close to him. But
I'm not sure it goes the other way. We're not presenting him with weekly
programs about our lives.*
I'm sure when he makes it through this, he'll share his experience with us in
some way, shape or form. And then again, he may not.
Bob
*not intentional, but isn't the voicemail a good attempt.
--- Tayt J Harlin <tjh219@nyu.edu> wrote:
> Howdy.
>
> Anyone know what the nature of Joe's present "illness" is? It seems
> silly that's it's being kept a secret.
>
> Anyway, I hope he recovers quickly.
>
> Tayt
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
__________________________________
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From harold.johnson at gmail.com Fri May 13 14:10:17 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Fri May 13 14:10:26 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe's "Illness"
In-Reply-To: <20050513210152.48520.qmail@web31909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20050513210152.48520.qmail@web31909.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d80505131410a5d3de0@mail.gmail.com>
Though there's no information regarding the nature of Joe's illness,
the News page of joefrank.com was update a few days ago with a brief
message:
http://www.joefrank.com/news.html
Harold James Johnson
SomethingthatHappened.com
On 5/13/05, B T <uhohjf@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Tayt,
>
> Yes, listening to him all these years do make us feel really close to him. But
> I'm not sure it goes the other way. We're not presenting him with weekly
> programs about our lives.*
>
> I'm sure when he makes it through this, he'll share his experience with us in
> some way, shape or form. And then again, he may not.
>
> Bob
>
> *not intentional, but isn't the voicemail a good attempt.
>
>
> --- Tayt J Harlin <tjh219@nyu.edu> wrote:
> > Howdy.
> >
> > Anyone know what the nature of Joe's present "illness" is? It seems
> > silly that's it's being kept a secret.
> >
> > Anyway, I hope he recovers quickly.
> >
> > Tayt
> > _______________________________________________
> > Joe Frank Mailing List
> > joe-frank-list@armory.com
> > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
> >
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
From uhohjf at yahoo.com Fri May 13 16:22:53 2005
From: uhohjf at yahoo.com (B T)
Date: Fri May 13 16:24:28 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Wow--Joe Frank appreciation voicemail
1-888-220-7523
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050513232253.32027.qmail@web31906.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Talk about slackers. Nice to see I'm not the only one-- the irony.
Thanks again for sharing. You'll hear them soon.
Bob
--- B T <uhohjf@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry, better make that 9 hours left, defunct at 4:00pm Pacific Standard
> Time,
> today, FRIDAY.
>
> Enough. Bob
>
> ==========
> Dear Joe Frank listeners,
>
> There's little more than 16 hours left. This voicemail number will be
> defunct
> at around MIDNIGHT (give or take an hour or two) Pacific Standard Time, today
> FRIDAY.
>
> You know what to do.
>
> Thanks all for contributing thus far.
>
> Bob deux
>
> ===Sent April 15=====
>
> Dear loyal and new listeners of Joe Frank,
>
> I have been meaning to create something like this for quite a very long time,
> and it would seem very appropriate to get it started immediately now.
>
> I have set up an 888 voicemail number with unlimited minutes for listeners to
> call and leave messages/anecdotes along the lines of:
>
> -how Joe's program has touched your life, good or bad
> -how you've come to hear of Joe's work
> -how Joe has created some meaning or void in your life
> -etc etc, though any comments/ponderings are welcome
>
> My goal was and still is to compile these and mix them with Joe's droning
> ambience muse and make it freely available to both Joe and fans, with the
> sole
> purpose of showing how much Joe has indeed influenced our lives-- good and
> bad.
>
> In light of recent news, there is also an option to choose for those who
> would
> like to leave a get well message for Joe. These specific messages will be
> forwarded to the Joe Frank team of www.joefrank.com and therefore be made
> available to Joe himself.
>
> This is not to detract from cards or letters you plan on sending to him, but
> to
> add another format of communication, a format we are all too familiar with
> from
> his shows. And who knows, maybe it is cathartic to light a match and watch
> and
> smell the flames engulf the letters in a studio.
>
> So feel free to call 24/7: 1-888-220-7523*
>
> Bob deux
>
> *Note: This is created by me, a long time listener of Joe Frank. I am not
> affiliated with him or www.joefrank.com in any other way, shape, or form.
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
From shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu Fri May 13 17:09:56 2005
From: shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erik Shirokoff)
Date: Fri May 13 17:08:24 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] WFMU Joe Shows
In-Reply-To: <20050513032449.54865.qmail@web52008.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200505111200.ac29167@deepthought.armory.com>
<20050513032449.54865.qmail@web52008.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050514000956.GA27973@jabberwock.hopto.org>
Hi all,
I have it on good authority that "Dirge" is actually "A Pact with God" and "Remember When" is "Performer." WFMU listed working titles for the programs.
Best,
Erik
On Thu, May 12, 2005 at 08:24:49PM -0700, auntiehistamine wrote:
>
> Earlier tonight I listened to the weekly WFMU broadcast of Joe's past
> shows. They aired "Remember When". Next week's show is listed as being
> "Dirge".
>
> I've looked these two shows up on several Joe resources on the web, and
> I can't find any information about them. Does anyone know what year
> they were done and what series they were part of?
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
From harold.johnson at gmail.com Fri May 13 17:47:02 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Fri May 13 17:47:06 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe's "Illness"
In-Reply-To: <1c1b47f1c1bf5d.1c1bf5d1c1b47f@nyu.edu>
References: <1c1b47f1c1bf5d.1c1bf5d1c1b47f@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d8050513174767709843@mail.gmail.com>
Hi Tayt,
I don't intend to sound rude, but I think you're assuming a bit much
here. We don't have any idea how serious Joe's illness is, and it's
his business to keep it private. I'm just as curious (and a bit
worried) as you are about what's going on, but it'd do Joe better to
send him our best wishes than to presume his privacy in the matter is
silly.
Harold
On 5/13/05, Tayt J Harlin <tjh219@nyu.edu> wrote:
> Howdy.
>
> Anyone know what the nature of Joe's present "illness" is? It seems
> silly that's it's being kept a secret.
>
> Anyway, I hope he recovers quickly.
>
> Tayt
From bobl at 1amsoftware.com Fri May 13 18:18:59 2005
From: bobl at 1amsoftware.com (Bob Lee)
Date: Fri May 13 18:19:08 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe's "Illness"
References: <1c1b47f1c1bf5d.1c1bf5d1c1b47f@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <00b301c55822$eb605ae0$8112060a@BOBST30>
I have it on good source that he is out of the hospital at home recovering..
I have also heard that the cards and letters from his fans have been a great
joy to him, these past weeks.
Who knows, he might talk about his experience on a future webcast/show .
Bob Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tayt J Harlin" <tjh219@nyu.edu>
To: <joe-frank-list@armory.com>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 3:30 PM
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe's "Illness"
> Howdy.
>
> Anyone know what the nature of Joe's present "illness" is? It seems
> silly that's it's being kept a secret.
>
> Anyway, I hope he recovers quickly.
>
> Tayt
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
From gofishorfigure at hotmail.com Sat May 14 15:09:27 2005
From: gofishorfigure at hotmail.com (David Smith)
Date: Sat May 14 15:09:30 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] The Los Angeles Joe Frank Collective
Message-ID: <BAY106-F2050A4FDA1CF7ACAB5FF9C4130@phx.gbl>
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From harold.johnson at gmail.com Sun May 15 08:22:09 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Sun May 15 08:22:14 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] The Los Angeles Joe Frank Collective
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F2050A4FDA1CF7ACAB5FF9C4130@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY106-F2050A4FDA1CF7ACAB5FF9C4130@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d805051508222c916278@mail.gmail.com>
This is great, David. I'm in. Meetup is a great service; I recently
joined and met other podcasters in L.A. (In fact, I didn't even have
to go to the meetup to meet them! I won't bother the list with an
explanation of that, though...)
One question, David: Is Meetup charging us to establish get-togethers?
I recently heard that they were going to begin charging a small fee
for services. Is that true?
Harold J. Johnson
Free MP3 Downloads
of a Life Described Online:
SomethingthatHappened.com
On 5/14/05, David Smith <gofishorfigure@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello mighty list members,
> I have successfully petitioned http://meetup.com to add "Joe Frank" as a
> topic. Also, there is now a group established for those in the Los Angeles
> area to join if anyone is so inclined to meet others who share their
> affinity for Joe's work. It is free to all and more information can be
> found here: http://joefrank.meetup.com/1/
>
> Cheers,
> David S.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
>
>
From majestic_cheese at yahoo.com Sun May 15 16:09:14 2005
From: majestic_cheese at yahoo.com (Larry Dunn)
Date: Sun May 15 16:10:47 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 13
In-Reply-To: <200505141200.ac03754@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <20050515230914.1214.qmail@web30015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> From: Harold Johnson <harold.johnson@gmail.com>
> I'm just as
> curious (and a bit
> worried) as you are about what's going on,
I'm not really curious, just worried. I don't care
what it is. I just want it to go away. I hope we
have him around for a long time. He's an interesting
voice in a sea of bland sameness.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
From majestic_cheese at yahoo.com Sun May 15 16:21:46 2005
From: majestic_cheese at yahoo.com (Larry Dunn)
Date: Sun May 15 16:23:19 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music afficionados
In-Reply-To: <200505151200.ac11663@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <20050515232147.12281.qmail@web30011.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
My knowledge of music is embarrassing, so I have to
ask some of those cooler and hipper than I (a large
group) what a piece of music from Joe's "The Other
Side" broadcasts is.
It's what we might call the "theme music" to the
numbered Karma series. No, not "Brazil," the other
one, slow and sad, starting with an acoustic guitar.
For those of you with subscriptions, it's the very
first thing you hear in Karma 6, but it is there in
almost all of the numbered Karma broadcasts.
Anyone know what it is? I've listened to the music
listed on the "Music of Joe Frank" websites for the
Karma series, and it's not anything listed. I wonder
if someone wrote it for Joe, especially for Karma. Thanks.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
From beau at nwcr.net Sun May 15 17:44:51 2005
From: beau at nwcr.net (Beau Gunderson)
Date: Sun May 15 18:02:56 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music afficionados
In-Reply-To: <20050515232147.12281.qmail@web30011.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200505151802.aa29392@deepthought.armory.com>
On my Joe Frank music page (http://www.fakepope.com/joefrank/) I have two
entries for Karma:
2000
Karma (Series)
Rearrange
Cinematic Orchestra
Remixes
2000
Karma (Series)
Brazil
Antonio Carlos Jobim
Stone Flower
I guess we'll see if anyone knows what the Cinematic Orchestra one sounds
like.
Beau.
-----Original Message-----
From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
[mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Larry Dunn
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 4:22 PM
To: joe-frank-list@armory.com
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music afficionados
My knowledge of music is embarrassing, so I have to
ask some of those cooler and hipper than I (a large
group) what a piece of music from Joe's "The Other
Side" broadcasts is.
It's what we might call the "theme music" to the
numbered Karma series. No, not "Brazil," the other
one, slow and sad, starting with an acoustic guitar.
For those of you with subscriptions, it's the very
first thing you hear in Karma 6, but it is there in
almost all of the numbered Karma broadcasts.
Anyone know what it is? I've listened to the music
listed on the "Music of Joe Frank" websites for the
Karma series, and it's not anything listed. I wonder
if someone wrote it for Joe, especially for Karma. Thanks.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
_______________________________________________
Joe Frank Mailing List
joe-frank-list@armory.com
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
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From ghastly_fop at yahoo.com Sun May 15 18:27:11 2005
From: ghastly_fop at yahoo.com (Levent)
Date: Sun May 15 18:28:43 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music afficionados
In-Reply-To: <200505151802.aa29392@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <20050516012711.71832.qmail@web52501.mail.yahoo.com>
The piece of music he's talking about is not the
Cinematic Orchestra.
--- Beau Gunderson <beau@nwcr.net> wrote:
> On my Joe Frank music page
> (http://www.fakepope.com/joefrank/) I have two
> entries for Karma:
>
>
>
>
> 2000
>
> Karma (Series)
>
> Rearrange
>
> Cinematic Orchestra
>
> Remixes
>
>
> 2000
>
> Karma (Series)
>
> Brazil
>
> Antonio Carlos Jobim
>
> Stone Flower
>
>
>
> I guess we'll see if anyone knows what the Cinematic
> Orchestra one sounds
> like.
>
>
>
> Beau.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf
> Of Larry Dunn
> Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2005 4:22 PM
> To: joe-frank-list@armory.com
> Subject: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music
> afficionados
>
>
>
> My knowledge of music is embarrassing, so I have to
>
> ask some of those cooler and hipper than I (a large
>
> group) what a piece of music from Joe's "The Other
>
> Side" broadcasts is.
>
>
>
> It's what we might call the "theme music" to the
>
> numbered Karma series. No, not "Brazil," the other
>
> one, slow and sad, starting with an acoustic guitar.
>
>
> For those of you with subscriptions, it's the very
>
> first thing you hear in Karma 6, but it is there in
>
> almost all of the numbered Karma broadcasts.
>
>
>
> Anyone know what it is? I've listened to the music
>
> listed on the "Music of Joe Frank" websites for the
>
> Karma series, and it's not anything listed. I
> wonder
>
> if someone wrote it for Joe, especially for Karma.
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
>
> Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
>
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Joe Frank Mailing List
>
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
>
>
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
> > _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
>
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
From harold.johnson at gmail.com Sun May 15 18:38:16 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Sun May 15 18:38:19 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: joe-frank-list Digest, Vol 23, Issue 13
In-Reply-To: <20050515230914.1214.qmail@web30015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <200505141200.ac03754@deepthought.armory.com>
<20050515230914.1214.qmail@web30015.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d80505151838323d71ee@mail.gmail.com>
You said it, Larry.
On 5/15/05, Larry Dunn <majestic_cheese@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > From: Harold Johnson <harold.johnson@gmail.com>
>
> > I'm just as
> > curious (and a bit
> > worried) as you are about what's going on,
>
> I'm not really curious, just worried. I don't care
> what it is. I just want it to go away. I hope we
> have him around for a long time. He's an interesting
> voice in a sea of bland sameness.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
From tjh219 at nyu.edu Mon May 16 12:29:45 2005
From: tjh219 at nyu.edu (Tayt J Harlin)
Date: Mon May 16 12:29:50 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Music
Message-ID: <1606dc1608dd.1608dd1606dc@nyu.edu>
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From bobl at 1amsoftware.com Mon May 16 12:52:32 2005
From: bobl at 1amsoftware.com (Bob Lee)
Date: Mon May 16 12:54:21 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Music
References: <1606dc1608dd.1608dd1606dc@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <014001c55a50$cdb9b330$a202a8c0@IBMBOBDESK>
maybe this is what you are looking for.
http://www.fakepope.com/joefrank/
Bob Lee
----- Original Message -----
From: Tayt J Harlin
To: joe-frank-list@armory.com
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 3:29 PM
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Music
That's another thing: we really need more information about the music Joe uses. Perhaps when he's better someone who knows him can ask about it. Maybe he has some kind of database for that stuff. There's so many songs I'd love to track down...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Joe Frank Mailing List
joe-frank-list@armory.com
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
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From beau at nwcr.net Mon May 16 12:56:27 2005
From: beau at nwcr.net (Beau Gunderson)
Date: Mon May 16 12:56:46 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Music
In-Reply-To: <1606dc1608dd.1608dd1606dc@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <200505161256.aa02653@deepthought.armory.com>
Make sure you check out the Joe Frank Music Page
(http://www.fakepope.com/joefrank/) as I do keep a database of the songs
sortable by year, show, band, album, etc. and take submissions when new
songs are discovered.
Beau.
________________________________________
From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
[mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Tayt J Harlin
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 12:30 PM
To: joe-frank-list@armory.com
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Music
That's another thing: we really need more information about the music Joe
uses. Perhaps when he's better someone who knows him can ask about it.
Maybe?he has some kind of database for that stuff. There's so many songs I'd
love to track down...
From majestic_cheese at yahoo.com Mon May 16 17:23:01 2005
From: majestic_cheese at yahoo.com (Larry Dunn)
Date: Mon May 16 17:24:34 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music
In-Reply-To: <200505161200.ac03779@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <20050517002302.25303.qmail@web30004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
From: "Beau Gunderson" <beau@nwcr.net>
>On my Joe Frank music page
>I have two
>entries for Karma:
Thanks, but as I said, I've already listened to the
music on the Joe Frank music websites, and it's not
any of the pieces listed.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
From harold.johnson at gmail.com Mon May 16 17:52:59 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Mon May 16 17:53:03 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Music
In-Reply-To: <200505161256.aa02653@deepthought.armory.com>
References: <1606dc1608dd.1608dd1606dc@nyu.edu>
<200505161256.aa02653@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d805051617527eb11bcb@mail.gmail.com>
That's a great list, by the way. I've used it for research before.
Harold
On 5/16/05, Beau Gunderson <beau@nwcr.net> wrote:
> Make sure you check out the Joe Frank Music Page
> (http://www.fakepope.com/joefrank/) as I do keep a database of the songs
> sortable by year, show, band, album, etc. and take submissions when new
> songs are discovered.
>
> Beau.
>
> ________________________________________
> From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Tayt J Harlin
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 12:30 PM
> To: joe-frank-list@armory.com
> Subject: [joe-frank-list] Music
>
> That's another thing: we really need more information about the music Joe
> uses. Perhaps when he's better someone who knows him can ask about it.
> Maybehe has some kind of database for that stuff. There's so many songs I'd
> love to track down...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
From beau at nwcr.net Mon May 16 19:10:44 2005
From: beau at nwcr.net (Beau Gunderson)
Date: Mon May 16 19:13:20 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music (clip included)
In-Reply-To: <20050517002302.25303.qmail@web30004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200505161913.aa12760@deepthought.armory.com>
Ah, I apologize--I thought you said it just wasn't the "Brazil" one.
I've uploaded the clip from the beginning of Karma part 6 to the site, at:
http://www.fakepope.com/joefrank/clips/karmapt6.mp3
Maybe a lawyer will find it and send me a cease and desist and we can find
out what song it is that way. ;)
As far as I can tell it's another Portuguese song that starts off in Am7,
goes to A7, and then to a chord I'm not sure of.
The first two chords are (for those of use who like Joe's music and also
play guitar):
Am7: 5-x-5-5-5-x
A7: 5-x-5-6-5-x
If you type this into google:
site:www.bossanovaguitar.com am7 a7
You get quite a large list of suspects. I looked at some of the ones by
Antonio Carlos Jobim but didn't see any that matched quite right.
I'll forward the clip on to my uncle and see if he knows, he's a big
Portuguese music fan.
Beau.
-----Original Message-----
From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
[mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Larry Dunn
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 5:23 PM
To: joe-frank-list@armory.com
Subject: RE: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music
From: "Beau Gunderson" <beau@nwcr.net>
>On my Joe Frank music page
>I have two
>entries for Karma:
Thanks, but as I said, I've already listened to the
music on the Joe Frank music websites, and it's not
any of the pieces listed.
From harold.johnson at gmail.com Mon May 16 19:51:30 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Mon May 16 19:51:34 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music (clip included)
In-Reply-To: <200505161913.aa12760@deepthought.armory.com>
References: <20050517002302.25303.qmail@web30004.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
<200505161913.aa12760@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d805051619514400f401@mail.gmail.com>
Oh yes, I love that piece. Not sure who it is either, though.
Harold
On 5/16/05, Beau Gunderson <beau@nwcr.net> wrote:
> Ah, I apologize--I thought you said it just wasn't the "Brazil" one.
>
> I've uploaded the clip from the beginning of Karma part 6 to the site, at:
>
> http://www.fakepope.com/joefrank/clips/karmapt6.mp3
>
> Maybe a lawyer will find it and send me a cease and desist and we can find
> out what song it is that way. ;)
>
> As far as I can tell it's another Portuguese song that starts off in Am7,
> goes to A7, and then to a chord I'm not sure of.
>
> The first two chords are (for those of use who like Joe's music and also
> play guitar):
>
> Am7: 5-x-5-5-5-x
> A7: 5-x-5-6-5-x
>
> If you type this into google:
>
> site:www.bossanovaguitar.com am7 a7
>
> You get quite a large list of suspects. I looked at some of the ones by
> Antonio Carlos Jobim but didn't see any that matched quite right.
>
> I'll forward the clip on to my uncle and see if he knows, he's a big
> Portuguese music fan.
>
> Beau.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Larry Dunn
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 5:23 PM
> To: joe-frank-list@armory.com
> Subject: RE: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music
>
> From: "Beau Gunderson" <beau@nwcr.net>
>
> >On my Joe Frank music page
> >I have two
> >entries for Karma:
>
> Thanks, but as I said, I've already listened to the
> music on the Joe Frank music websites, and it's not
> any of the pieces listed.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
From BILLMILOSZ at aol.com Mon May 16 21:31:08 2005
From: BILLMILOSZ at aol.com (BILLMILOSZ@aol.com)
Date: Mon May 16 21:31:14 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Another music question
Message-ID: <d2.28ed0713.2fbacd8c@aol.com>
I've asked this of the group before, and have not gotten an answer- but maybe
there's someone new lurking who can resolve the matter.
In Cocktails Before Dinner there's this uptempo pop bit,
http://lf.org/forbidden/joe/jf.rm and someone has told me it's Art of Noise and this sounds
logical, except I've bought every Art of Noise CD in the catalog and it's not on
any of them. Someone else said it sounded like "an English hair band" which I
think is a genre but I have no idea which bands would fall into that
category....
And NO, it's NOT Jon Hassel. He does an entirely different sort of music,
with which I'm quite familiar.
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From beau at nwcr.net Mon May 16 22:37:17 2005
From: beau at nwcr.net (Beau Gunderson)
Date: Mon May 16 22:37:22 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Another music question
In-Reply-To: <d2.28ed0713.2fbacd8c@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200505162237.aa17318@deepthought.armory.com>
Gave it a good listen and the only words I can make out for sure are "can't
take no more"-did a google search on that plus lyrics and came up with quite
a few songs but none of them seem to be it.
Flock of Seagulls is definitely an English hair band (and half the band were
actually hairdressers) but I don't think it was them. ;)
There are quite a few Art of Noise CDs that are import-only, you could try
going to Amazon.com and looking those up and listening to the sound
samples-that might yield something.
Beau.
_____
From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
[mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of BILLMILOSZ@aol.com
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 9:31 PM
To: joe-frank-list@armory.com
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Another music question
I've asked this of the group before, and have not gotten an answer- but
maybe there's someone new lurking who can resolve the matter.
In Cocktails Before Dinner there's this uptempo pop bit,
http://lf.org/forbidden/joe/jf.rm and someone has told me it's Art of
Noise and this sounds logical, except I've bought every Art of Noise CD in
the catalog and it's not on any of them. Someone else said it sounded like
"an English hair band" which I think is a genre but I have no idea which
bands would fall into that category....
And NO, it's NOT Jon Hassel. He does an entirely different sort of music,
with which I'm quite familiar.
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From auntiehistamine at yahoo.com Mon May 16 23:22:43 2005
From: auntiehistamine at yahoo.com (auntiehistamine)
Date: Mon May 16 23:24:16 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: WFMU Joe Shows
In-Reply-To: <200505141200.ac03754@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <20050517062243.5328.qmail@web52003.mail.yahoo.com>
Thanks for the info Eric.
After I posted the question, I thought to look up the first lines of
the show on the "Name that Joe" page
<http://www.andromeda.com/people/ddyer/joe/joe-frank-finder.html> It's
exactly as you said.
I had forgotten about this page; it's a nice resource for
identification.
That's interesting to know that WFMU uses the working titles instead of
the acutal ones. It does seem a bit odd though, because the titles on
their FAQ page <http://freeform.wfmu.org/JF/joe_fran.html> are the
actual ones. "Performer" is listed there, and not "Remember When".
Pat
--- joe-frank-list-request@armory.com wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have it on good authority that "Dirge" is actually "A Pact with
> God" and "Remember When" is "Performer." WFMU listed working titles
> for the programs.
>
> Best,
> Erik
From auntiehistamine at yahoo.com Mon May 16 23:34:48 2005
From: auntiehistamine at yahoo.com (auntiehistamine)
Date: Mon May 16 23:36:21 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] RE: Music
In-Reply-To: <200505162238.ac17710@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <20050517063448.59235.qmail@web52006.mail.yahoo.com>
I've urged the folks at the Joe Frank Wiki
<http://jfwiki.org/index.php/Main_Page> to include information from the
WFMU FAQ page <http://www.wfmu.org/JF/joe_fran.html> and Beau's page
<http://www.fakepope.com/joefrank/> at their site. Right now these are
listed as external links. Hopefully the information can be integrated
for the summaries of each show at some point.
The Wiki is a great idea and I hope it continues to grow.
--- joe-frank-list-request@armory.com wrote:
> That's another thing: we really need more information about the
> music Joe uses. Perhaps when he's better someone who knows him can
> ask about it. Maybe he has some kind of database for that stuff.
> There's so many songs I'd love to track down...
Don't plaster your friend's email addies all over the net! Be safe! Instead of the "To" button, use the "BCC" (blind carbon copy) button when forwarding to a group of friends.
From spblat at gmail.com Tue May 17 00:02:51 2005
From: spblat at gmail.com (Will Irace)
Date: Tue May 17 00:02:55 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] RE: Music
In-Reply-To: <20050517063448.59235.qmail@web52006.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <200505162238.ac17710@deepthought.armory.com>
<20050517063448.59235.qmail@web52006.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <d5da6b4b05051700023bf8e9cc@mail.gmail.com>
Ah, but that's the great thing about a wiki! Anyone can make it so!
As the www.jfwiki.org proprietor, let me extend this open invitation
to everybody to join us and assist in assimilating whatever content
seems appropriate (provided we're not trampling on anyone's rights).
It's a small but very friendly community over there inside the wiki.
Anyone looking for help getting started as a wiki contributor is urged
to get in touch, or ask a question on our "public chatter" page:
http://jfwiki.org/index.php/JFWiki:Village_Pump
In fact, now that we have a page with a synopsis for pretty much every
show, my personal feeling is that a detailed inventory of music used
on the programs would be a terrific next step; it's a subject that
interests me greatly.
In fact, I have opened a discussion on the wiki on this very topic so
we can get started:
http://jfwiki.org/index.php/JFWiki_talk:Music
What's on my mind initially is this:
1) Should www.jfwiki.org attempt to be a comprehensive resource for
identifying music on JF programs? (I think the answer is yes.)
2) Are there existing resources on the web that already do this to
some extent? (again, yes.)
3) Would the owners of those resources be willing to let
www.jfwiki.org shamelessly reproduce and try to improve upon their
painstaking research? (This is the question I feel needs the most
attention as we begin to consider this.)
4) Assuming we move forward, how should this content be incorporated
into the wiki?
Cheers,
--W
On 5/16/05, auntiehistamine <auntiehistamine@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I've urged the folks at the Joe Frank Wiki
> <http://jfwiki.org/index.php/Main_Page> to include information from the
> WFMU FAQ page <http://www.wfmu.org/JF/joe_fran.html> and Beau's page
> <http://www.fakepope.com/joefrank/> at their site. Right now these are
> listed as external links. Hopefully the information can be integrated
> for the summaries of each show at some point.
>
> The Wiki is a great idea and I hope it continues to grow.
>
> --- joe-frank-list-request@armory.com wrote:
>
> > That's another thing: we really need more information about the
> > music Joe uses. Perhaps when he's better someone who knows him can
> > ask about it. Maybe he has some kind of database for that stuff.
> > There's so many songs I'd love to track down...
>
From hunterochs at gmx.net Tue May 17 06:46:41 2005
From: hunterochs at gmx.net (Hunter Ochs)
Date: Tue May 17 06:46:46 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music (clip included)
In-Reply-To: <200505161913.aa12760@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <BEAF43D1.7760%hunterochs@gmx.net>
Oh that song.
It's called Spacebeach and appears on Arling & Cameron's Music For Imaginary
Films.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00003OP8E/qid=1116337234/sr=8
-6/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl15/102-3583453-5993712?v=glance&s=music&n=507846
Greetings,
Hunter
> From: Beau Gunderson <beau@nwcr.net>
> Reply-To: Joe Frank Mailing List <joe-frank-list@armory.com>
> Date: Mon, 16 May 2005 19:10:44 -0700
> To: 'Joe Frank Mailing List' <joe-frank-list@armory.com>
> Subject: RE: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music (clip included)
>
> Ah, I apologize--I thought you said it just wasn't the "Brazil" one.
>
> I've uploaded the clip from the beginning of Karma part 6 to the site, at:
>
> http://www.fakepope.com/joefrank/clips/karmapt6.mp3
>
> Maybe a lawyer will find it and send me a cease and desist and we can find
> out what song it is that way. ;)
>
> As far as I can tell it's another Portuguese song that starts off in Am7,
> goes to A7, and then to a chord I'm not sure of.
>
> The first two chords are (for those of use who like Joe's music and also
> play guitar):
>
> Am7: 5-x-5-5-5-x
> A7: 5-x-5-6-5-x
>
> If you type this into google:
>
> site:www.bossanovaguitar.com am7 a7
>
> You get quite a large list of suspects. I looked at some of the ones by
> Antonio Carlos Jobim but didn't see any that matched quite right.
>
> I'll forward the clip on to my uncle and see if he knows, he's a big
> Portuguese music fan.
>
> Beau.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Larry Dunn
> Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 5:23 PM
> To: joe-frank-list@armory.com
> Subject: RE: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music
>
> From: "Beau Gunderson" <beau@nwcr.net>
>
>> On my Joe Frank music page
>> I have two
>> entries for Karma:
>
> Thanks, but as I said, I've already listened to the
> music on the Joe Frank music websites, and it's not
> any of the pieces listed.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
From majestic_cheese at yahoo.com Tue May 17 17:30:29 2005
From: majestic_cheese at yahoo.com (Larry Dunn)
Date: Tue May 17 17:32:02 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music
In-Reply-To: <200505171200.ac29334@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <20050518003030.69774.qmail@web30013.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
From: Hunter Ochs <hunterochs@gmx.net>
>Oh that song.
>It's called Spacebeach and appears on Arling &
>Cameron's Music For Imaginary
>Films.
Thank you!
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
From sublet3 at hotmail.com Tue May 17 17:53:28 2005
From: sublet3 at hotmail.com (Sublet)
Date: Tue May 17 17:53:47 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music
References: <20050518003030.69774.qmail@web30013.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <BAY101-DAV66A89CAFFE6EDD9C8557BE5170@phx.gbl>
Besides the Cocktails Before Dinner music that was mentioned earlier, I'd
also really like to know what the fast paced music is at the very beginning
of The Nature of Things. It seems like there's some of the same music (or
same artist?) briefly in the middle of Bad Kharma. Any ideas?
Thanks!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Dunn" <majestic_cheese@yahoo.com>
To: <joe-frank-list@armory.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2005 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Question for the music
> From: Hunter Ochs <hunterochs@gmx.net>
>
> >Oh that song.
>
> >It's called Spacebeach and appears on Arling &
> >Cameron's Music For Imaginary
> >Films.
>
> Thank you!
From tjh219 at nyu.edu Wed May 18 12:16:29 2005
From: tjh219 at nyu.edu (Tayt J Harlin)
Date: Wed May 18 12:16:34 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Music
Message-ID: <5c95175c6cc3.5c6cc35c9517@nyu.edu>
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From harold.johnson at gmail.com Thu May 19 08:24:19 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Thu May 19 08:24:26 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Music
In-Reply-To: <5c95175c6cc3.5c6cc35c9517@nyu.edu>
References: <5c95175c6cc3.5c6cc35c9517@nyu.edu>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d805051908242a56f66e@mail.gmail.com>
Hi Tayt,
Which show was that? I know I've heard it...
Harold
On 5/18/05, Tayt J Harlin <tjh219@nyu.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Anyone know the name of that funky tune that's playing when Joe's describing
> his stint as a high-school teacher on the Upper East Side of Manhattan,
> where he's heckled by the Marxist radicals in his class? It's a hip-hop /
> electronic tune.
>
> Tayt
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
>
>
From beau at nwcr.net Thu May 19 12:27:20 2005
From: beau at nwcr.net (Beau Gunderson)
Date: Thu May 19 12:27:25 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Music
In-Reply-To: <2dbaf4d805051908242a56f66e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200505191227.aa24701@deepthought.armory.com>
Higher Learning I believe
-----Original Message-----
From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com
[mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Harold Johnson
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 8:24 AM
To: Joe Frank Mailing List
Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Music
Hi Tayt,
Which show was that? I know I've heard it...
Harold
On 5/18/05, Tayt J Harlin <tjh219@nyu.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Anyone know the name of that funky tune that's playing when Joe's
describing
> his stint as a high-school teacher on the Upper East Side of Manhattan,
> where he's heckled by the Marxist radicals in his class? It's a hip-hop /
> electronic tune.
>
> Tayt
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Joe Frank Mailing List
joe-frank-list@armory.com
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
From tjh219 at nyu.edu Thu May 19 12:39:51 2005
From: tjh219 at nyu.edu (Tayt J Harlin)
Date: Thu May 19 12:39:56 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Music
Message-ID: <80a16280f027.80f02780a162@nyu.edu>
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From shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu Tue May 24 02:01:18 2005
From: shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erik Shirokoff)
Date: Tue May 24 02:01:08 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Jack Kornfield call-in show
In-Reply-To: <20050505004106.33196.qmail@web30006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <200505041200.ac28508@deepthought.armory.com>
<20050505004106.33196.qmail@web30006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20050524090118.GA14288@jabberwock.hopto.org>
A heads-up following the recent Kornfield discussion here.
In case anyone does want to ask Kornfield about Joe (or anything else, I guess), he'll be on the KQED program Forum tomorrow, Tue May 24, from 10:00-11:00 AM.
It's a call-in show, and is available online both live and archived.
http://www.kqed.org/programs/program-landing.jsp?progID=RD19
- Erik
On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 05:41:06PM -0700, Larry Dunn wrote:
> >Jack Kornfield is inspiring, I never even considered
> >that Joe was being sarcastic,
>
> And with good reason.
>
> > Next time I go I will ask him about Joe Frank. Or
> >probably not, what's the point?
>
> Idle curiosity? It's as good a reason as any to do something.
>
From shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu Wed May 25 13:05:58 2005
From: shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erik Shirokoff)
Date: Wed May 25 13:05:43 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield call-in show
In-Reply-To: <20050524090118.GA14288@jabberwock.hopto.org>
References: <200505041200.ac28508@deepthought.armory.com>
<20050505004106.33196.qmail@web30006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
<20050524090118.GA14288@jabberwock.hopto.org>
Message-ID: <20050525200558.GA17119@jabberwock.hopto.org>
For those who missed it, someone (not I) did call in and ask about Joe's programs. Kornfield said he didn't know Joe personally, and didn't know about his material being included in the shows until a friend mentioned having heard them.
It was also quite an interesting interview on its own terms. I have a rather higher opinion of Kornfield after having heard it than I had before. It's well worth a listen.
- Erik
On Tue, May 24, 2005 at 02:01:18AM -0700, Erik Shirokoff wrote:
>
> A heads-up following the recent Kornfield discussion here.
>
> In case anyone does want to ask Kornfield about Joe (or anything else, I guess), he'll be on the KQED program Forum tomorrow, Tue May 24, from 10:00-11:00 AM.
> It's a call-in show, and is available online both live and archived.
>
> http://www.kqed.org/programs/program-landing.jsp?progID=RD19
>
> - Erik
From leslynn at urbandebate.org Thu May 26 09:28:39 2005
From: leslynn at urbandebate.org (Les Lynn)
Date: Thu May 26 09:28:43 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield call-in show
In-Reply-To: <20050525200558.GA17119@jabberwock.hopto.org>
References: <200505041200.ac28508@deepthought.armory.com>
<20050505004106.33196.qmail@web30006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
<20050524090118.GA14288@jabberwock.hopto.org>
<20050525200558.GA17119@jabberwock.hopto.org>
Message-ID: <49184.204.76.0.33.1117124919.webmail@204.76.0.33>
I listened to this broadcast (on line) and didn't hear this question/answer.
-----Original Message-----
From: "Erik Shirokoff" <shiro@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:05 pm
To: "Joe Frank Mailing List" <joe-frank-list@armory.com>
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield call-in show
For those who missed it, someone (not I) did call in and ask about Joe's
programs. Kornfield said he didn't know Joe personally, and didn't know
about his material being included in the shows until a friend mentioned
having heard them.
It was also quite an interesting interview on its own terms. I have a
rather higher opinion of Kornfield after having heard it than I had
before. It's well worth a listen.
- Erik
On Tue, May 24, 2005 at 02:01:18AM -0700, Erik Shirokoff wrote:
>
> A heads-up following the recent Kornfield discussion here.
>
> In case anyone does want to ask Kornfield about Joe (or anything else, I
guess), he'll be on the KQED program Forum tomorrow, Tue May 24, from
10:00-11:00 AM.
> It's a call-in show, and is available online both live and archived.
>
> http://www.kqed.org/programs/program-landing.jsp?progID=RD19
>
> - Erik
_______________________________________________
Joe Frank Mailing List
joe-frank-list@armory.com
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
Les Lynn
Executive Director
National Association of Urban Debate Leagues
332 S. Michigan Ave., Suite 500
Chicago, IL 60604
(o) 312-427-8101
(f) 312-427-6130
(c) 312-848-2271
From dbakins at cox.net Thu May 26 09:41:00 2005
From: dbakins at cox.net (Damon Akins)
Date: Thu May 26 09:44:40 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield call-in show
References: <200505041200.ac28508@deepthought.armory.com><20050505004106.33196.qmail@web30006.mail.mud.yahoo.com><20050524090118.GA14288@jabberwock.hopto.org><20050525200558.GA17119@jabberwock.hopto.org>
<49184.204.76.0.33.1117124919.webmail@204.76.0.33>
Message-ID: <000501c56211$b3a30aa0$030ba8c0@ok.cox.net>
It came toward the end of the show, and neither Jack nor the host, Michael
Krasny, spent much time on it. In fact, Jack sounded just a wee-bit annoyed
by the question. What was also interesting is that Krasny had no idea who
Joe was. Their professional circles aren't so far apart, although I know it
is a long drive across the bay bridge, and even further down the 5 to Santa
Monica.
_damon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Lynn" <leslynn@urbandebate.org>
To: "Joe Frank Mailing List" <joe-frank-list@armory.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:28 AM
Subject: RE: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield call-in show
I listened to this broadcast (on line) and didn't hear this question/answer.
-----Original Message-----
From: "Erik Shirokoff" <shiro@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:05 pm
To: "Joe Frank Mailing List" <joe-frank-list@armory.com>
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield call-in show
For those who missed it, someone (not I) did call in and ask about Joe's
programs. Kornfield said he didn't know Joe personally, and didn't know
about his material being included in the shows until a friend mentioned
having heard them.
It was also quite an interesting interview on its own terms. I have a
rather higher opinion of Kornfield after having heard it than I had
before. It's well worth a listen.
- Erik
On Tue, May 24, 2005 at 02:01:18AM -0700, Erik Shirokoff wrote:
>
> A heads-up following the recent Kornfield discussion here.
>
> In case anyone does want to ask Kornfield about Joe (or anything else, I
guess), he'll be on the KQED program Forum tomorrow, Tue May 24, from
10:00-11:00 AM.
> It's a call-in show, and is available online both live and archived.
>
> http://www.kqed.org/programs/program-landing.jsp?progID=RD19
>
> - Erik
_______________________________________________
Joe Frank Mailing List
joe-frank-list@armory.com
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
Les Lynn
Executive Director
National Association of Urban Debate Leagues
332 S. Michigan Ave., Suite 500
Chicago, IL 60604
(o) 312-427-8101
(f) 312-427-6130
(c) 312-848-2271
_______________________________________________
Joe Frank Mailing List
joe-frank-list@armory.com
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
From awkwardgrace at yahoo.com Thu May 26 09:52:34 2005
From: awkwardgrace at yahoo.com (Tom McDonald)
Date: Thu May 26 09:54:07 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield call-in show
In-Reply-To: <49184.204.76.0.33.1117124919.webmail@204.76.0.33>
Message-ID: <20050526165234.59577.qmail@web50504.mail.yahoo.com>
It was there toward the end of Q/A session, maybe
about the 4th or 5th caller? (Erik thanks for
reminding us that the show occurred and for including
the link. It was indeed a worthwhile interview.)
Interesting little call about Joe Frank because the
puzzled host turned it back on the caller to explain
who Joe Frank is (caller did a decent job with that
one) and then Kornfield didn't express much warmth or
fascination toward JF or his show or his use of
Kornfield's material. I wondered if perhaps the
Kornfield segments were used without his
permission--possibly the usage rights were granted by
a publisher or something like that, or possibly the
clips were simply used without permission. Hm, I
imagine that could put a buddhist in an awkward
philosophical position. The whole problem of
attachment. Oh well, good thing Kornfield is not a
buddhist but the buddha himself.
; )
Tom
--- Les Lynn <leslynn@urbandebate.org> wrote:
> I listened to this broadcast (on line) and didn't
> hear this question/answer.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Erik Shirokoff" <shiro@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:05 pm
> To: "Joe Frank Mailing List"
> <joe-frank-list@armory.com>
> Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield call-in
> show
>
> For those who missed it, someone (not I) did call in
> and ask about Joe's
> programs. Kornfield said he didn't know Joe
> personally, and didn't know
> about his material being included in the shows until
> a friend mentioned
> having heard them.
>
> It was also quite an interesting interview on its
> own terms. I have a
> rather higher opinion of Kornfield after having
> heard it than I had
> before. It's well worth a listen.
>
> - Erik
>
>
> On Tue, May 24, 2005 at 02:01:18AM -0700, Erik
> Shirokoff wrote:
> >
> > A heads-up following the recent Kornfield
> discussion here.
> >
> > In case anyone does want to ask Kornfield about
> Joe (or anything else, I
> guess), he'll be on the KQED program Forum tomorrow,
> Tue May 24, from
> 10:00-11:00 AM.
> > It's a call-in show, and is available online both
> live and archived.
> >
> >
>
http://www.kqed.org/programs/program-landing.jsp?progID=RD19
> >
> > - Erik
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
>
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
>
>
> Les Lynn
> Executive Director
> National Association of Urban Debate Leagues
> 332 S. Michigan Ave., Suite 500
> Chicago, IL 60604
> (o) 312-427-8101
> (f) 312-427-6130
> (c) 312-848-2271
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
>
http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
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From harold.johnson at gmail.com Thu May 26 10:33:54 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Thu May 26 10:33:58 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield call-in show
In-Reply-To: <20050526165234.59577.qmail@web50504.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <49184.204.76.0.33.1117124919.webmail@204.76.0.33>
<20050526165234.59577.qmail@web50504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d8050526103321659d2@mail.gmail.com>
The whole problem of attachment! LOL
Harold
On 5/26/05, Tom McDonald <awkwardgrace@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It was there toward the end of Q/A session, maybe
> about the 4th or 5th caller? (Erik thanks for
> reminding us that the show occurred and for including
> the link. It was indeed a worthwhile interview.)
>
> Interesting little call about Joe Frank because the
> puzzled host turned it back on the caller to explain
> who Joe Frank is (caller did a decent job with that
> one) and then Kornfield didn't express much warmth or
> fascination toward JF or his show or his use of
> Kornfield's material. I wondered if perhaps the
> Kornfield segments were used without his
> permission--possibly the usage rights were granted by
> a publisher or something like that, or possibly the
> clips were simply used without permission. Hm, I
> imagine that could put a buddhist in an awkward
> philosophical position. The whole problem of
> attachment. Oh well, good thing Kornfield is not a
> buddhist but the buddha himself.
> ; )
>
> Tom
>
> --- Les Lynn <leslynn@urbandebate.org> wrote:
>
> > I listened to this broadcast (on line) and didn't
> > hear this question/answer.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Erik Shirokoff" <shiro@uclink4.berkeley.edu>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:05 pm
> > To: "Joe Frank Mailing List"
> > <joe-frank-list@armory.com>
> > Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield call-in
> > show
> >
> > For those who missed it, someone (not I) did call in
> > and ask about Joe's
> > programs. Kornfield said he didn't know Joe
> > personally, and didn't know
> > about his material being included in the shows until
> > a friend mentioned
> > having heard them.
> >
> > It was also quite an interesting interview on its
> > own terms. I have a
> > rather higher opinion of Kornfield after having
> > heard it than I had
> > before. It's well worth a listen.
> >
> > - Erik
> >
> >
> > On Tue, May 24, 2005 at 02:01:18AM -0700, Erik
> > Shirokoff wrote:
> > >
> > > A heads-up following the recent Kornfield
> > discussion here.
> > >
> > > In case anyone does want to ask Kornfield about
> > Joe (or anything else, I
> > guess), he'll be on the KQED program Forum tomorrow,
> > Tue May 24, from
> > 10:00-11:00 AM.
> > > It's a call-in show, and is available online both
> > live and archived.
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.kqed.org/programs/program-landing.jsp?progID=RD19
> > >
> > > - Erik
> > _______________________________________________
> > Joe Frank Mailing List
> > joe-frank-list@armory.com
> >
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
> >
> >
> >
> > Les Lynn
> > Executive Director
> > National Association of Urban Debate Leagues
> > 332 S. Michigan Ave., Suite 500
> > Chicago, IL 60604
> > (o) 312-427-8101
> > (f) 312-427-6130
> > (c) 312-848-2271
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Joe Frank Mailing List
> > joe-frank-list@armory.com
> >
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail Mobile
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
> http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
> _______________________________________________
> Joe Frank Mailing List
> joe-frank-list@armory.com
> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
From innadadadavida at yahoo.com Thu May 26 17:50:29 2005
From: innadadadavida at yahoo.com (innadadadavida)
Date: Thu May 26 17:52:02 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield call-in show
Message-ID: <20050527005030.9828.qmail@web51608.mail.yahoo.com>
For completeness, the JF query occurs at 47m35s in the stream at
<http://www.kqed.org/epArchive/R505241000>
__________________________________________________
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From majestic_cheese at yahoo.com Thu May 26 20:59:36 2005
From: majestic_cheese at yahoo.com (Larry Dunn)
Date: Thu May 26 21:01:08 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield
In-Reply-To: <200505261200.ac20767@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <20050527035936.26832.qmail@web30013.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
From: Tom McDonald <awkwardgrace@yahoo.com>
>and then Kornfield didn't express much warmth or
>fascination toward JF or his show or his use of
>Kornfield's material. I wondered if perhaps the
>Kornfield segments were used without his
>permission--
I doubt that. Maybe Kornfield just didn't want to
spend his time on this show talking about someone
else's radio show, or maybe he wasn't annoyed at all,
maybe he didn't like the sneering about him that
happens occasinally on the show, or maybe he was just
in a bad mood. Well, maybe we should kidnap him and
ask him.
>possibly the usage rights were granted by
>a publisher or something like that, or possibly the
>clips were simply used without permission.
I really doubt that the segments were just jacked from
a CD. I understand that, when the shows were
originally broadcast, they were followed by an
announcement about how to get more information about
Kornfield. He probably has some kind of licensing
agent who sells the rights for his material.
On an unrelated note, some of you guys really need to
learn how to trim your messages.
__________________________________________________
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From harold.johnson at gmail.com Thu May 26 21:26:17 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Thu May 26 21:26:21 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Jack Kornfield
In-Reply-To: <20050527035936.26832.qmail@web30013.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <200505261200.ac20767@deepthought.armory.com>
<20050527035936.26832.qmail@web30013.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d805052621264a21c7d2@mail.gmail.com>
On 5/26/05, Larry Dunn <majestic_cheese@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On an unrelated note, some of you guys really need to
> learn how to trim your messages.
Sorry for not trimming my last message down; sometimes I forget to do
so because I'm racing to get it sent before the Internet Monster eats
it up. That beast seems to never have its f
From auntiehistamine at yahoo.com Fri May 27 12:46:02 2005
From: auntiehistamine at yahoo.com (auntiehistamine)
Date: Fri May 27 15:08:04 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Airplay Goof?
Message-ID: <BEBCE32A.3C8%auntiehistamine@yahoo.com>
> Sorry for not trimming my last message down; sometimes I forget to do
> so because I'm racing to get it sent before the Internet Monster eats
> it up. That beast seems to never have its f
I'm guessing that the Internet Monster took a little bite there, Larry!
***
I listen to a number of stations on the net that broadcast Joe's shows, and
recently I have heard portions of shows on one station that seem to be
playing backwards for a few seconds. Has anyone else noticed this? Do you
suppose it's merely a technical problem or is it perhaps some new low-tech
form of copy protection?
From harold.johnson at gmail.com Sat May 28 13:25:48 2005
From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson)
Date: Sat May 28 13:26:07 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Airplay Goof?
In-Reply-To: <BEBCE32A.3C8%auntiehistamine@yahoo.com>
References: <BEBCE32A.3C8%auntiehistamine@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2dbaf4d805052813253119c989@mail.gmail.com>
On 5/27/05, auntiehistamine <auntiehistamine@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Sorry for not trimming my last message down; sometimes I forget to do
> > so because I'm racing to get it sent before the Internet Monster eats
> > it up. That beast seems to never have its f
>
> I'm guessing that the Internet Monster took a little bite there, Larry!
Yes, auntie, the Internet Monster has an insatiable appetite. (That
was my message, by the way, not La
From auntiehistamine at yahoo.com Sun May 29 12:25:08 2005
From: auntiehistamine at yahoo.com (auntiehistamine)
Date: Sun May 29 12:26:41 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Internet Monster
In-Reply-To: 6667
Message-ID: <20050529192508.72042.qmail@web52006.mail.yahoo.com>
> Yes, auntie, the Internet Monster has an insatiable appetite. (That
> was my message, by the way, not La
Sorry, I got confused by the headers ;-P
Don't plaster your friend's email addies all over the net! Be safe! Instead of the "To" button, use the "BCC" (blind carbon copy) button when forwarding to a group of friends.
From majestic_cheese at yahoo.com Mon May 30 15:25:34 2005
From: majestic_cheese at yahoo.com (Larry Dunn)
Date: Mon May 30 15:27:08 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] Airplay Goof?
In-Reply-To: <200505291200.ac05998@deepthought.armory.com>
Message-ID: <20050530222534.61434.qmail@web30005.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> (That
> was my message, by the way, not La
Ah yes, I had heard there was wit to be found here.
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From spblat at gmail.com Mon May 30 16:18:48 2005
From: spblat at gmail.com (Will Irace)
Date: Mon May 30 16:18:50 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] JF heard in the flesh on NPR!!
Message-ID: <d5da6b4b05053016184a8858c0@mail.gmail.com>
NPR's Memorial Day Special today closed with a 5 minute piece created
by none other than Joe Frank.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4672606
I have created a mention of it on the wiki:
http://jfwiki.org/index.php/War_vs._Peace
Wow!!
--W
From mondeauxp at yahoo.com Tue May 31 16:23:31 2005
From: mondeauxp at yahoo.com (Armando Prado)
Date: Tue May 31 16:25:03 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] re: Poem for Peace
Message-ID: <20050531232331.19346.qmail@web51408.mail.yahoo.com>
I was excited at the prospect of hearing fresh (and healthy) JF through the NPR site. However, it seems to be just an excerpt from a previous show.
Also... although it appears such trivialities are not for everyone on this list, I'm on a mission to find out who "Kate" is. For those who want to join me in my quest, try scouring www.imdb.com . Mondo
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."- Krishnamurti
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From gofishorfigure at hotmail.com Tue May 31 18:55:24 2005
From: gofishorfigure at hotmail.com (David Smith)
Date: Tue May 31 18:57:03 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] re: Poem for Peace
Message-ID: <BAY106-F282C9E2BD3F58D322FBAA0C4050@phx.gbl>
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From sander at antoniades.com Tue May 31 20:25:29 2005
From: sander at antoniades.com (Alexander Antoniades)
Date: Tue May 31 20:25:54 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] re: Poem for Peace
In-Reply-To: <BAY106-F282C9E2BD3F58D322FBAA0C4050@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY106-F282C9E2BD3F58D322FBAA0C4050@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <429D2AA9.8040105@antoniades.com>
I'm sorry but I just have to chime in on this. For the last time: Welsh
plus actress does not equal Catherine Zeta Jones. Please stop!
If everyone's going to constantly being this up, let's go one step
farther. CZJ (Kate) visits Joe on the set of the Game, where he's in a
scene with Michael Douglas.
Their eyes lock, it's an awkward moment, she's there to meet Joe, but
she'd irreversibly drawn to Michael. Joe introduces them, disturbed by
the obvious attraction. They joke about on the ride home, but clearly
something has changed.
Catherine stops calling him, Joe's concerned, he's not sure what to do
then he sees her with Michael, together in the tabloids...
What does it mean? This makes Michael Douglas, Felix Mandelsmann, the
wealthy European that Joe so feared in his dreams!
If we're going to do this do it right,
Sander
David Smith wrote:
>
>
> Mondo,
>
> Actually I am quite obsessed myself. I am a bit ashamed of this fact,
> but it is true. I guess because of being a guy and all, and we are not
> "supposed" to be gossipy and stuff, but it really seems like a worthy
> mystery to try and solve, so count me in. Also, I love that
> Krishnamurti quote at the end of your message ("It is no measure of
> health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."-
> Krishnamurti), and I hadn't heard that one before. He is pretty much
> my all time hero (him and joe oddly enough.. ha) So, you are not alone
> in your quest to discover out who Kate is. So far the Katherine Zeta
> theory seems the most fantastical and yet gripping of possibilities,
> and I really haven't heard any good alternatives yet.
>
> David
>
> http://joefrank.meetup.com/1/
>
>
>
>
> >From: Armando Prado <mondeauxp@yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: Joe Frank Mailing List <joe-frank-list@armory.com>
> >To: joe-frank-list@armory.com
> >Subject: [joe-frank-list] re: Poem for Peace
> >Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 16:23:31 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >I was excited at the prospect of hearing fresh (and healthy) JF
> through the NPR site. However, it seems to be just an excerpt from a
> previous show.
> >Also... although it appears such trivialities are not for everyone on
> this list, I'm on a mission to find out who "Kate" is. For those who
> want to join me in my quest, try scouring www.imdb.com . Mondo
> >
> >
> >"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick
> society."- Krishnamurti
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Joe Frank Mailing List
>joe-frank-list@armory.com
>http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list
>
>
From gofishorfigure at hotmail.com Tue May 31 22:17:12 2005
From: gofishorfigure at hotmail.com (David Smith)
Date: Tue May 31 22:18:43 2005
Subject: [joe-frank-list] re: Poem for Peace
Message-ID: <BAY106-F142BCDAFDECCB629B65B7CC4050@phx.gbl>
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