From majestic_cheese at yahoo.com Fri Jul 8 18:40:13 2005 From: majestic_cheese at yahoo.com (Larry Dunn) Date: Fri Jul 8 18:41:45 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Gifts for someone undergoing kidney dialysis In-Reply-To: <200506301201.ac10467@deepthought.armory.com> Message-ID: <20050709014013.79348.qmail@web30003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'd like to send something to Joe, as he's given me a lot of enjoyment over the years, but I've never known anyone undergoing kidney dialysis before. What would be a good thing to send to someone getting dialysis? I assume things like booze are out of the question. Maybe something to pass the time while he is undergoing dialysis? A book would be good, but how to know if he's already read it? By the way, does anyone know if Joe is awaiting a Kidney transplant? ____________________________________________________ Sell on Yahoo! Auctions ? no fees. Bid on great items. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From harold.johnson at gmail.com Fri Jul 8 20:57:48 2005 From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 8 20:57:52 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Gifts for someone undergoing kidney dialysis In-Reply-To: <20050709014013.79348.qmail@web30003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200506301201.ac10467@deepthought.armory.com> <20050709014013.79348.qmail@web30003.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2dbaf4d805070820576f263df4@mail.gmail.com> I thought about Joe about an hour ago as I drove past St. John's hospital in Santa Monica...That's a tough question, Larry. What do you think you would want if you were living with this? Perhaps something to make your life easier in some significant way - maybe something time-saving. A Segway would be cool, wouldn't it? I know I would want one of those: they're hip, they look like fun, and they save time getting around. Is there anyone here who could make that kind of donation? (Hey, you never know...) As far as books go: you're right; Joe seems well-read and it'd be difficult to know what book he hasn't picked up yet. Still, he might dig a rare edition of Faulker picked up somewhere. Maybe an Audible.com account, so he can choose his own audiobook and journal subscription. I'm just putting some ideas out there. Harold J. Johnson On 7/8/05, Larry Dunn wrote: > I'd like to send something to Joe, as he's given me a > lot of enjoyment over the years, but I've never known > anyone undergoing kidney dialysis before. What would > be a good thing to send to someone getting dialysis? > I assume things like booze are out of the question. > Maybe something to pass the time while he is > undergoing dialysis? A book would be good, but how to > know if he's already read it? > > By the way, does anyone know if Joe is awaiting a > Kidney transplant? From bewareofdog at mac.com Sat Jul 23 20:09:16 2005 From: bewareofdog at mac.com (bewareofdog@mac.com) Date: Sat Jul 23 20:09:26 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours Message-ID: <86523233-C3DD-486A-BC5C-4FADD8BE6C94@mac.com> Alright, I'm probably in the dark, so to speak when it comes to this one... but the screenwriter on the 1985 Scorsese flick "After Hours" is credited to one Joseph Minion. Now Minion's original screenplay was entitled "Lies." Of course segments from "After Hours" undoubtedly come directly from the 1982 Joe Frank Monologue also entitled "Lies." However the photo of Joseph Minion shown in a dvd extra is not Joe Frank and no one seems to mention him anywhere in relation to the project. I tried to dig up some more info on Minion, he has other credits for writing "Vampire's Kiss," "Motorama," and a few others... Seeing as Mr. Block appeared in "After Hours" as the cab driver, could he or anyone shed a little light on this mystery for me? Thanks in advance... Joel Israel From heldj at mail.med.upenn.edu Sat Jul 23 21:14:35 2005 From: heldj at mail.med.upenn.edu (Jon Held) Date: Sat Jul 23 21:15:24 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <86523233-C3DD-486A-BC5C-4FADD8BE6C94@mac.com> Message-ID: <000001c59006$335948a0$274a5444@CC267476B> In Joe Frank's episode entitled "No Show", he talks about this. He mentions his storyline was "stolen", Joe Frank didn't find out about it until after the movie was released, Joe Frank later sued Minion, and won. (keep in mind JF talks about it in the LONG version of "No Show", not the condensed version which was also aired) I never knew until now that Larry Block was in that movie. In light of that, I don't really know *what* happened. "No Show" seemed to be 100% autobiographical, but who knows. Incidentally, here's a proven fact: "ALL JOE FRANK FANS WILL LOVE THE MOVIE "AFTER HOURS". (or at least appreciate it.) The movie seems like it was written and directed by JF himself. Closest "cinamagraphic" representation of Joe's work I've ever seen. -Jon > -----Original Message----- > From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com > [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of > bewareofdog@mac.com > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 11:09 PM > To: joe-frank-list@armory.com > Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours > > > Alright, I'm probably in the dark, so to speak when it comes to this > one... but the screenwriter on the 1985 Scorsese flick > "After Hours" > is credited to one Joseph Minion. Now Minion's original screenplay > was entitled "Lies." Of course segments from "After Hours" > undoubtedly come directly from the 1982 Joe Frank Monologue also > entitled "Lies." However the photo of Joseph Minion shown in a dvd > extra is not Joe Frank and no one seems to mention him anywhere in > relation to the project. > > I tried to dig up some more info on Minion, he has other credits for > writing "Vampire's Kiss," "Motorama," and a few others... > > Seeing as Mr. Block appeared in "After Hours" as the cab driver, > could he or anyone shed a little light on this mystery for me? > > Thanks in advance... > > Joel Israel > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > From epierce at rcn.com Sat Jul 23 21:16:49 2005 From: epierce at rcn.com (Eric Pierce) Date: Sat Jul 23 21:24:08 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <86523233-C3DD-486A-BC5C-4FADD8BE6C94@mac.com> Message-ID: Joel, I strongly recommend you listen to the Joe Frank program entitled No Show. I think it will fill you in on this topic quite a bit. To summarize, the screenplay for After Hours was not written by Joe Frank but instead ripped off by Joseph Minion. No Show happened around the time when Joe Frank had planned to work on a radio program but instead got wrapped up in the legal and personal issues surrounding the dispute over After Hours. So involved in fact that the only material that he had for the show by the time he had to go on the air was the story of this whole affair. So he sat down with the microphone and told the story. Check it out. - Eric Pierce > -----Original Message----- > From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com > [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com]On Behalf Of > bewareofdog@mac.com > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 11:09 PM > To: joe-frank-list@armory.com > Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours > > > > > Alright, I'm probably in the dark, so to speak when it comes to this > one... but the screenwriter on the 1985 Scorsese flick "After Hours" > is credited to one Joseph Minion. Now Minion's original screenplay > was entitled "Lies." Of course segments from "After Hours" > undoubtedly come directly from the 1982 Joe Frank Monologue also > entitled "Lies." However the photo of Joseph Minion shown in a dvd > extra is not Joe Frank and no one seems to mention him anywhere in > relation to the project. > > I tried to dig up some more info on Minion, he has other credits for > writing "Vampire's Kiss," "Motorama," and a few others... > > Seeing as Mr. Block appeared in "After Hours" as the cab driver, > could he or anyone shed a little light on this mystery for me? > > Thanks in advance... > > Joel Israel > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list From ghastly_fop at yahoo.com Sat Jul 23 21:35:48 2005 From: ghastly_fop at yahoo.com (Levent) Date: Sat Jul 23 21:37:21 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050724043548.60261.qmail@web52503.mail.yahoo.com> You know, though, I have always wondered about the Larry Block connection. His performance is really only seconds long, and he doesn't speak a word. He glares, though. He's good. But come on, doesn't anyone else find it a little suspicious that Larry is in this film? Was he contributing to Joe's show by 1984/5, when "After Hours" was shot/released? Has Scorsese ever commented on this? Joe's "No Show" comments seemed pretty definitive, but the Larry thing really surprised me. Larry, you're out there, man, care to shed some light? --- Eric Pierce wrote: > > Joel, > > I strongly recommend you listen to the Joe Frank > program entitled No Show. > I think it will fill you in on this topic quite a > bit. > > To summarize, the screenplay for After Hours was not > written by Joe Frank > but instead ripped off by Joseph Minion. No Show > happened around the time > when Joe Frank had planned to work on a radio > program but instead got > wrapped up in the legal and personal issues > surrounding the dispute over > After Hours. So involved in fact that the only > material that he had for the > show by the time he had to go on the air was the > story of this whole affair. > So he sat down with the microphone and told the > story. > > Check it out. > > - Eric Pierce > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com > > [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com]On > Behalf Of > > bewareofdog@mac.com > > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 11:09 PM > > To: joe-frank-list@armory.com > > Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours > > > > > > > > > > Alright, I'm probably in the dark, so to speak > when it comes to this > > one... but the screenwriter on the 1985 Scorsese > flick "After Hours" > > is credited to one Joseph Minion. Now Minion's > original screenplay > > was entitled "Lies." Of course segments from > "After Hours" > > undoubtedly come directly from the 1982 Joe Frank > Monologue also > > entitled "Lies." However the photo of Joseph > Minion shown in a dvd > > extra is not Joe Frank and no one seems to mention > him anywhere in > > relation to the project. > > > > I tried to dig up some more info on Minion, he has > other credits for > > writing "Vampire's Kiss," "Motorama," and a few > others... > > > > Seeing as Mr. Block appeared in "After Hours" as > the cab driver, > > could he or anyone shed a little light on this > mystery for me? > > > > Thanks in advance... > > > > Joel Israel > > _______________________________________________ > > Joe Frank Mailing List > > joe-frank-list@armory.com > > > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 From bewareofdog at mac.com Sat Jul 23 21:44:34 2005 From: bewareofdog at mac.com (bewareofdog@mac.com) Date: Sat Jul 23 21:44:43 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey guys... thanx for the speedy response... Eric & Jon... is the long version of No Show available on joefrank.com? All I can find is the No Show (remix), and after a quick scan I didn't hear it mentioned. I'll listen more closely... BTW-- Levent, Larry does speak in "After Hours," later in the film he screams "Let's see how you like it, buddy!" after he grabs twenty bucks from Griffin Dunne's hand. Joel -" I sure would like to listen to the radio myself, except I'm here, I am the radio" -Joe Frank On Jul 24, 2005, at 12:16 AM, Eric Pierce wrote: > > Joel, > > I strongly recommend you listen to the Joe Frank program entitled > No Show. > I think it will fill you in on this topic quite a bit. > > To summarize, the screenplay for After Hours was not written by Joe > Frank > but instead ripped off by Joseph Minion. No Show happened around > the time > when Joe Frank had planned to work on a radio program but instead got > wrapped up in the legal and personal issues surrounding the dispute > over > After Hours. So involved in fact that the only material that he > had for the > show by the time he had to go on the air was the story of this > whole affair. > So he sat down with the microphone and told the story. > > Check it out. > > - Eric Pierce > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com >> [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com]On Behalf Of >> bewareofdog@mac.com >> Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2005 11:09 PM >> To: joe-frank-list@armory.com >> Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours >> >> >> >> >> Alright, I'm probably in the dark, so to speak when it comes to this >> one... but the screenwriter on the 1985 Scorsese flick "After Hours" >> is credited to one Joseph Minion. Now Minion's original screenplay >> was entitled "Lies." Of course segments from "After Hours" >> undoubtedly come directly from the 1982 Joe Frank Monologue also >> entitled "Lies." However the photo of Joseph Minion shown in a dvd >> extra is not Joe Frank and no one seems to mention him anywhere in >> relation to the project. >> >> I tried to dig up some more info on Minion, he has other credits for >> writing "Vampire's Kiss," "Motorama," and a few others... >> >> Seeing as Mr. Block appeared in "After Hours" as the cab driver, >> could he or anyone shed a little light on this mystery for me? >> >> Thanks in advance... >> >> Joel Israel >> _______________________________________________ >> Joe Frank Mailing List >> joe-frank-list@armory.com >> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list >> > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > From Peisithanatos at aol.com Sun Jul 24 02:32:39 2005 From: Peisithanatos at aol.com (Peisithanatos@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 24 02:32:48 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours Message-ID: <1e3.406f7606.3014ba37@aol.com> "Incidentally, here's a proven fact: "ALL JOE FRANK FANS WILL LOVE THE MOVIE "AFTER HOURS". (or at least appreciate it.) The movie seems like it was written and directed by JF himself. Closest "cinamagraphic" representation of Joe's work I've ever seen." I don't concur with this, at all. I found the film to be a trifle boring. The only redeeming elements were the elements they ripped off of Joe (which I don't condone)... and, of course, Larry Block's appearance. Otherwise, they should all be ashamed of themselves for stealing Joe's material (though the bulk of the blame may fall on Minion's shoulders, the producers of this film should've done a better job of ascertaining that the narrative material was original). The best cinematic representations of Joe's work are the projects Joe's been involved with himself (which you can find on Playboy's "Inside Out" series, and, now, on JoeFrank.com). Those of you who have seen Joe using this footage live can attest to its brilliance. Hegesias -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20050724/412e14e7/attachment.htm From paldek at ix.netcom.com Sun Jul 24 07:30:12 2005 From: paldek at ix.netcom.com (Marc Plainguet) Date: Sun Jul 24 07:30:20 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >All I can find is the No Show (remix), and after a quick scan I All this material about "After Hours" is ONLY in the 2 hour long version of "No Show" which was broadcast and then immediately edited down removing all the "After Hours" material. Possibly, despite Joe bring ripped off badly, he had some compassion for the screenwriter and decided to not "air" that dirty laundry anymore especially considering the personal problems the screenwriter was also dealing with. Joe never names the film or the screenwriter in the show but anyone who's seen "After Hours" can figure it out because the plagiarism is rather blatant. It's so blatant that I actually saw "After Hours" first and later heard "Lies" and was confused. Here's another possibility... In 120 minute of "No Show" Joe says a friend called him and told him he just saw a movie and the first 20-30 minutes was exactly one of his shows and that sets the lawsuit in motion. Maybe Larry, who was in the movie, acted in the movie without seeing the full script (which would be common for a smaller part) and went to an early screening only to find out that the movie he acted in was ripping off his friend, thusly Larry being the one that called Joe and informed him. Pure speculation. Larry might be able to clear this up, but you never know stipulations of the lawsuit which could have included keeping quiet about it all (i.e. cutting down "No Show" to 1 hour). Joe was ripped off badly, but he is probably compassionate enough to not want to destroy someone else's career. Marc Plainguet From bobl at 1amsoftware.com Sun Jul 24 08:20:31 2005 From: bobl at 1amsoftware.com (Bob Lee) Date: Sun Jul 24 08:20:43 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours References: Message-ID: <00ec01c59063$3b876c20$8412060a@IBMBOBSX30> There seems to be three versions "somewhere out there " . 1 hour 1.5 hour 2.0 hour.. While I find myself interested in this thread and I LOVD the movie After Hours - -saw it way before I ever knew of Joe Frank.... Which is these shows should I listen to has the scoop Bob Lee From ghastly_fop at yahoo.com Sun Jul 24 10:10:46 2005 From: ghastly_fop at yahoo.com (Levent) Date: Sun Jul 24 10:12:23 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <00ec01c59063$3b876c20$8412060a@IBMBOBSX30> Message-ID: <20050724171046.68899.qmail@web52506.mail.yahoo.com> Man, it's absurd how blatant the plagiarism is, right down to minute details (bagel and cream cheese plater of paris papaerweight? He's reading Tropic of Cancer?) and even lines of dialogue. I first heard of this whole "After Hours" controversy from my NYU sound design professor Charlie Potter, who was a colleague/collaborator of Joe's back in the day. I'd been a fan of the movie before I'd even heard of Joe. OK, but here's something to stir the pot--yeah, yeah, I know this is an absurd notion (but let's have fun with it), but has anyone considered the possibility that Joe Minion IS Joe Frank? And that this is all some kind of jokey post-modern game that's being played? That Joe wrote the screenplay under a pseudonym and then used the plagiarism thing as material for "No Show"? I remember that long version of "No Show," and he details the process of calling Minion out, talking to his girlfriend on the phone, Minion being suicidal over the whole thing, etc etc etc. And I'm surprised and puzzled that Minion's name remains on the film, AND the DVD makes no mention of this. AND, Minion is notably absent from the supplementary materials, commentaries, etc. There's just a mention that the script was his Columbia master's thesis. Either way, how could Joseph Minion had thought he could get away with this? --- Bob Lee wrote: > There seems to be three versions "somewhere out > there " . > > 1 hour > 1.5 hour > 2.0 hour.. > > While I find myself interested in this thread and I > LOVD the movie After > Hours - -saw it way before I ever knew of Joe > Frank.... Which is these shows > should I listen to has the scoop > > Bob Lee > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu Sun Jul 24 12:51:03 2005 From: shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erik Shirokoff) Date: Sun Jul 24 12:51:46 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <00ec01c59063$3b876c20$8412060a@IBMBOBSX30> References: <00ec01c59063$3b876c20$8412060a@IBMBOBSX30> Message-ID: <20050724195103.GA32326@jabberwock.hopto.org> Any idea what fills the extra 30 minutes on the two hour program? I've never heard mention of it before. The 90 minute version has the story in it. I'm also surprised to hear Larry was in the that film. Very strange coincidence. According to IMDB, the original script title was "Lies (USA)," which is almost too silly to believe. What sort of lunatic directly copies whole passages of dialog from a work and then also copies *the title*? Makes one wonder if the story in No Show is true or if there isn't something else going on. Joseph Minion has writer credits for six or seven films, and there's at least one interview floating around. One can't be sure, but he sounds like a real person, despite the name. According to the WFMU FAQ, Larry first appears in Joe's titled programs in Pilot (1983), although he may have participated in the WBAI stuff before that. (Anyone know?) Lies was 1982, No Show 1986. After Hours was released in 1985. What does that tell us? Not much, really. I imagine Larry could clarify if he felt it appropriate to fill us in. -Erik On Sun, Jul 24, 2005 at 11:20:31AM -0400, Bob Lee wrote: > X-Original-To: shiro@localhost > Delivered-To: shiro@localhost.localdomain > From: Bob Lee > To: Joe Frank Mailing List > Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] After Hours > Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 11:20:31 -0400 > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 > X-BeenThere: joe-frank-list@armory.com > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 > Precedence: list > Reply-To: Joe Frank Mailing List > List-Id: Joe Frank Mailing List > List-Unsubscribe: , > > List-Archive: > List-Post: > List-Help: > List-Subscribe: , > > Errors-To: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com > > There seems to be three versions "somewhere out there " . > > 1 hour > 1.5 hour > 2.0 hour.. > > While I find myself interested in this thread and I LOVD the movie After > Hours - -saw it way before I ever knew of Joe Frank.... Which is these > shows should I listen to has the scoop > > Bob Lee > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list From beau at nwcr.net Sun Jul 24 13:17:03 2005 From: beau at nwcr.net (Beau Gunderson) Date: Sun Jul 24 13:17:12 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <20050724195103.GA32326@jabberwock.hopto.org> Message-ID: <200507242017.j6OKGwdR427032@pimout6-ext.prodigy.net> I looked around FindLaw and some California and New York law sites and couldn't find the lawsuit anywhere. If you google for '"joe frank" "joseph minion"' you get no results, which is kind of weird. '"Joe Frank" "after dark"' gives some results but none of them are relevant to this Joe Frank or this After Hours. I am more and more curious. Beau. -----Original Message----- From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Erik Shirokoff Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 12:51 PM To: Joe Frank Mailing List Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] After Hours Any idea what fills the extra 30 minutes on the two hour program? I've never heard mention of it before. The 90 minute version has the story in it. I'm also surprised to hear Larry was in the that film. Very strange coincidence. According to IMDB, the original script title was "Lies (USA)," which is almost too silly to believe. What sort of lunatic directly copies whole passages of dialog from a work and then also copies *the title*? Makes one wonder if the story in No Show is true or if there isn't something else going on. Joseph Minion has writer credits for six or seven films, and there's at least one interview floating around. One can't be sure, but he sounds like a real person, despite the name. According to the WFMU FAQ, Larry first appears in Joe's titled programs in Pilot (1983), although he may have participated in the WBAI stuff before that. (Anyone know?) Lies was 1982, No Show 1986. After Hours was released in 1985. What does that tell us? Not much, really. I imagine Larry could clarify if he felt it appropriate to fill us in. -Erik On Sun, Jul 24, 2005 at 11:20:31AM -0400, Bob Lee wrote: > X-Original-To: shiro@localhost > Delivered-To: shiro@localhost.localdomain > From: Bob Lee > To: Joe Frank Mailing List > Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] After Hours > Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 11:20:31 -0400 > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 > X-BeenThere: joe-frank-list@armory.com > X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 > Precedence: list > Reply-To: Joe Frank Mailing List > List-Id: Joe Frank Mailing List > List-Unsubscribe: , > > List-Archive: > List-Post: > List-Help: > List-Subscribe: , > > Errors-To: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com > > There seems to be three versions "somewhere out there " . > > 1 hour > 1.5 hour > 2.0 hour.. > > While I find myself interested in this thread and I LOVD the movie After > Hours - -saw it way before I ever knew of Joe Frank.... Which is these > shows should I listen to has the scoop > > Bob Lee > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list _______________________________________________ Joe Frank Mailing List joe-frank-list@armory.com http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list From Peisithanatos at aol.com Sun Jul 24 13:49:18 2005 From: Peisithanatos at aol.com (Peisithanatos@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 24 13:49:25 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours Message-ID: <208.5a5b41b.301558ce@aol.com> Speaking of cinematic adaptations of Joe's work, Chel White has done a number of short films based off of Joe's material ("Magda the Pretzel Girl", "Soulmate", "Dirt", etc.) in collaboration with Joe. You can read up on his work here. Or, in case that hyperlink doesn't work, you can copy & paste the following link: http://www.skysociety.com/chelwhite.html ... nice to see credit given where credit's due! Hegesias -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20050724/ee849f93/attachment.htm From majestic_cheese at yahoo.com Sun Jul 24 14:10:34 2005 From: majestic_cheese at yahoo.com (Larry Dunn) Date: Sun Jul 24 14:12:07 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <200507241013.ac07737@deepthought.armory.com> Message-ID: <20050724211034.80424.qmail@web30012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: "Bob Lee" >There seems to be three versions "somewhere out >there >" . >1 hour >1.5 hour >2.0 hour.. The only one I see on the Joe Frank website is the 1 hour version, and it's not in the "Somewhere Out There" collection. Unless I'm missing something? Where, if anywhere, is the original, unedited version to be found on the Joe Frank site? By the way, I doubt that the editing had anything to do with compassion. Did JF actually win the suit, or did they settle? If they settled, JF may have gotten a very fat settlement if he agreed not to discuss the infringement any longer, hence the edit. Just a guess, though, as I find nothing about it on the internet. Ah, the mystery-shrouded life of Joe Frank. Who is Kate? Why is "No Show" edited? What to get the man who has everything? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From bewareofdog at mac.com Sun Jul 24 16:27:35 2005 From: bewareofdog at mac.com (bewareofdog@mac.com) Date: Sun Jul 24 16:27:45 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <200507242017.j6OKGwdR427032@pimout6-ext.prodigy.net> References: <200507242017.j6OKGwdR427032@pimout6-ext.prodigy.net> Message-ID: Beau- EXACTLY. I also started looking last night. Wouldn't there be some record of a lawsuit to be found somewhere? And I imagine any sort of controversy surrounding a successful Martin Scorsese film would be talked about in the press, hence leaving some trail on the internet? Larry Dunn- I just find it hard to believe that JF would agree to settle and allow someone else take credit for his work... especially considering the accolades that Minion received for his "very clever script" That paycheck would have to be pretty f--king fat. Besides, as I understand it, plagiarism is not something a writer takes lightly. And as Erik Shirokoff mentioned, why would Minion market his original screenplay with the very same title as Joe's show (Lies)? Now if Larry Block did begin working with Joe before "After Hours" was filmed and produced, but after the show "Lies" had aired, then Mr. Block may know something he isn't talking about. Enquiring minds want to know. Levent- If we are to accept the possibility that Joseph Minion is in fact Joe Frank, then lets take a quick look at the name Minion. Which means "an underling of a powerful person" hmmm... I watched some of Minion's other films... "Vampire's Kiss" and "Motorama" and while not as well directed as "After Hours" they are both dark, comedic tales reminiscent of JF's style. Merely the work of an enamored sycophant, or are there more sinister forces at work? Given the fact that the original "No Show" where Joe discusses this issue is currently unavailable on the website, I would like to petition joefrank.com to include the unedited version of the show in this months offering. I believe some of us would very much like to revisit that episode, as well as those of us who were not fortunate enough to have heard it before. On Jul 24, 2005, at 4:17 PM, Beau Gunderson wrote: > I looked around FindLaw and some California and New York law sites and > couldn't find the lawsuit anywhere. > > If you google for '"joe frank" "joseph minion"' you get no results, > which is > kind of weird. > > '"Joe Frank" "after dark"' gives some results but none of them are > relevant > to this Joe Frank or this After Hours. > > I am more and more curious. > > Beau. > > -----Original Message----- > From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com > [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Erik Shirokoff > Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2005 12:51 PM > To: Joe Frank Mailing List > Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] After Hours > > Any idea what fills the extra 30 minutes on the two hour program? > I've > never heard mention of it before. The 90 minute version has the > story in > it. > > I'm also surprised to hear Larry was in the that film. Very strange > coincidence. > > According to IMDB, the original script title was "Lies (USA)," > which is > almost too silly to believe. What sort of lunatic directly copies > whole > passages of dialog from a work and then also copies *the title*? > Makes one > wonder if the story in No Show is true or if there isn't something > else > going on. > > Joseph Minion has writer credits for six or seven films, and > there's at > least one interview floating around. One can't be sure, but he > sounds like > a real person, despite the name. > > According to the WFMU FAQ, Larry first appears in Joe's titled > programs in > Pilot (1983), although he may have participated in the WBAI stuff > before > that. (Anyone know?) Lies was 1982, No Show 1986. After Hours was > released > in 1985. What does that tell us? Not much, really. I imagine > Larry could > clarify if he felt it appropriate to fill us in. > > > > -Erik > > On Sun, Jul 24, 2005 at 11:20:31AM -0400, Bob Lee wrote: > >> X-Original-To: shiro@localhost >> Delivered-To: shiro@localhost.localdomain >> From: Bob Lee >> To: Joe Frank Mailing List >> Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] After Hours >> Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2005 11:20:31 -0400 >> X-Priority: 3 >> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 >> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 >> X-BeenThere: joe-frank-list@armory.com >> X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 >> Precedence: list >> Reply-To: Joe Frank Mailing List >> List-Id: Joe Frank Mailing List >> List-Unsubscribe: >> > , > >> >> List-Archive: >> List-Post: >> List-Help: >> List-Subscribe: >> > , > >> >> Errors-To: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com >> >> There seems to be three versions "somewhere out there " . >> >> 1 hour >> 1.5 hour >> 2.0 hour.. >> >> While I find myself interested in this thread and I LOVD the movie >> After >> Hours - -saw it way before I ever knew of Joe Frank.... Which is >> these >> shows should I listen to has the scoop >> >> Bob Lee >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Joe Frank Mailing List >> joe-frank-list@armory.com >> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list >> > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > From joe-frank-list at amalon.com Sun Jul 24 20:08:42 2005 From: joe-frank-list at amalon.com (David Gutierrez) Date: Sun Jul 24 20:09:03 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <208.5a5b41b.301558ce@aol.com> References: <208.5a5b41b.301558ce@aol.com> Message-ID: <42E457BA.5070301@amalon.com> Speaking of Chel White, I've had this following page bookmarked for about 4 years if I'm not mistaken... each time I check, the DVD release date keeps getting pushed back. It currently says "Summer 2005", but that gives me no consolation, because it's said that for every season since about Spring 2001. http://www.skysociety.com/dvd.html Oh well, that's all for me... just had to let that out. Dave Peisithanatos@aol.com wrote: > Speaking of cinematic adaptations of Joe's work, Chel White has done a > number of short films based off of Joe's material ("Magda the Pretzel > Girl", "Soulmate", "Dirt", etc.) in collaboration with Joe. You can > read up on his work here . > > Or, in case that hyperlink doesn't work, you can copy & paste the > following link: http://www.skysociety.com/chelwhite.html > > ... nice to see credit given where credit's due! > Hegesias > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Joe Frank Mailing List >joe-frank-list@armory.com >http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > From majestic_cheese at yahoo.com Mon Jul 25 19:58:57 2005 From: majestic_cheese at yahoo.com (Larry Dunn) Date: Mon Jul 25 20:00:30 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <200507251200.ac19666@deepthought.armory.com> Message-ID: <20050726025858.38099.qmail@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: bewareofdog@mac.com >Larry Dunn- I just find it hard to believe that JF >would agree to settle and allow someone else take >credit for his work... The movie is already out there, there's nothing that can be done about it. So he gets a good settlement, and agrees to leave the issue alone. Anyway, someone said JF "won" the case, so this could all be academic. But were it a settlement, it's not uncommon for such arrangements to make leave the boat unrocked and compensate the injured party. That would explain the editing of the show. Check the IMDb page for After Hours. No credit for JF. If he'd won the right to assert a degree of authorship of the piece, I would expect something to be made of it on IMDb, which doesn't miss much. ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From sally at oilostatic.com Mon Jul 25 20:15:30 2005 From: sally at oilostatic.com (sally@oilostatic.com) Date: Mon Jul 25 20:15:36 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <20050726025858.38099.qmail@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050726025858.38099.qmail@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4F399AA3-B4CC-49EB-9445-5ACDCCF24E19@oilostatic.com> Hi joe frank fans. I'm a newbie. New to Joe Frank. New to the list. Currently wading through my "Work in Progress" subscription and thoroughly enjoying it! I wanted to contribute this quote on the subject that I found in a Salon article linked from Joe's site: "Frank was ultimately paid handsomely by producers of a Hollywood film (which he won't name) that plagiarized his dialogue, but there has never been a real Frank feature film" http://dir.salon.com/ent/feature/2000/03/07/joe_frank/index.html?pn=4 It doesn't shed too much light, but is yet another source... Does anyone know if Joe was ever in the military (Vietnam)?? Sorry if this is a retread, but I'm curious. -- sally@oilostatic.com what's an oilostatic? On Jul 25, 2005, at 10:58 PM, Larry Dunn wrote: From: bewareofdog@mac.com > Larry Dunn- I just find it hard to believe that JF > would agree to settle and allow someone else take > credit for his work... > The movie is already out there, there's nothing that can be done about it. So he gets a good settlement, and agrees to leave the issue alone. Anyway, someone said JF "won" the case, so this could all be academic. But were it a settlement, it's not uncommon for such arrangements to make leave the boat unrocked and compensate the injured party. That would explain the editing of the show. Check the IMDb page for After Hours. No credit for JF. If he'd won the right to assert a degree of authorship of the piece, I would expect something to be made of it on IMDb, which doesn't miss much. ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ Joe Frank Mailing List joe-frank-list@armory.com http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list From achavez382 at worldsavings.com Tue Jul 26 07:37:24 2005 From: achavez382 at worldsavings.com (Chavez, Aaron, ISD) Date: Tue Jul 26 07:37:30 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours Message-ID: <7BED8A15EDFE274D81BF3C76F3B23B9701E12D88@SA1EMS12.worldsavings.com> If he was, I'm sure it would come out in his work, which it doesn't, considering how profoundly intimate the rest of his writing is. Doesn't sound like it to me. A Chavez there has never been quite such a fool who could fail to pull the whole sky over him with one smile e e cummings -----Original Message----- From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of sally@oilostatic.com Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 8:16 PM To: Joe Frank Mailing List Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] After Hours Hi joe frank fans. I'm a newbie. New to Joe Frank. New to the list. Currently wading through my "Work in Progress" subscription and thoroughly enjoying it! I wanted to contribute this quote on the subject that I found in a Salon article linked from Joe's site: "Frank was ultimately paid handsomely by producers of a Hollywood film (which he won't name) that plagiarized his dialogue, but there has never been a real Frank feature film" http://dir.salon.com/ent/feature/2000/03/07/joe_frank/index.html?pn=4 It doesn't shed too much light, but is yet another source... Does anyone know if Joe was ever in the military (Vietnam)?? Sorry if this is a retread, but I'm curious. -- sally@oilostatic.com what's an oilostatic? On Jul 25, 2005, at 10:58 PM, Larry Dunn wrote: From: bewareofdog@mac.com > Larry Dunn- I just find it hard to believe that JF > would agree to settle and allow someone else take > credit for his work... > The movie is already out there, there's nothing that can be done about it. So he gets a good settlement, and agrees to leave the issue alone. Anyway, someone said JF "won" the case, so this could all be academic. But were it a settlement, it's not uncommon for such arrangements to make leave the boat unrocked and compensate the injured party. That would explain the editing of the show. Check the IMDb page for After Hours. No credit for JF. If he'd won the right to assert a degree of authorship of the piece, I would expect something to be made of it on IMDb, which doesn't miss much. ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ Joe Frank Mailing List joe-frank-list@armory.com http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list _______________________________________________ Joe Frank Mailing List joe-frank-list@armory.com http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list ***************************************************************************** If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify the sender immediately. The contents of this e-mail do not amend any existing disclosures or agreements unless expressly stated. ***************************************************************************** From shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu Fri Jul 29 01:37:54 2005 From: shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erik Shirokoff) Date: Fri Jul 29 01:38:25 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <20050726025858.38099.qmail@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200507251200.ac19666@deepthought.armory.com> <20050726025858.38099.qmail@web30001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050729083754.GA14694@jabberwock.hopto.org> I just saw the film for the first time. The amount of detail copied directly from the radio program is shocking. Even outside of the first thirty minute segment, there seem to be a lot of other small, incontextual random elements borrowed from Lies: keys thrown from a window to the sidewalk, a beehive hairdo, being chased down an alley and cornered, a home overrun by rodents. It's hard to imagine what the writer could have been thinking. It's almost as though someone was asked to start with the radio program and develop a new ending as a writing exercise. Another strange thing - the film prominently features (with little motivation) the song "Is That All There Is?" recorded by Peggy Lee. I seem to remember Joe Frank incorporating that song into a monologue toward the end of the Wadsworth show. (Did that really happen? Am I mixing up memories of something unrelated?) I wonder if that was an intentional reference to After Hours. - Erik From harold.johnson at gmail.com Fri Jul 29 11:18:49 2005 From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson) Date: Fri Jul 29 11:18:53 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <86523233-C3DD-486A-BC5C-4FADD8BE6C94@mac.com> References: <86523233-C3DD-486A-BC5C-4FADD8BE6C94@mac.com> Message-ID: <2dbaf4d80507291118728bbe61@mail.gmail.com> So (and my apologies if anyone else has already asked this question), is Joseph Minion A.K.A. Joe Frank? Harold J. Johnson http://somethingthathappened.com On 7/23/05, bewareofdog@mac.com wrote: > > > Alright, I'm probably in the dark, so to speak when it comes to this > one... but the screenwriter on the 1985 Scorsese flick "After Hours" > is credited to one Joseph Minion... From boojum at charter.net Fri Jul 29 15:15:29 2005 From: boojum at charter.net (Robert (Sandy) Noyes) Date: Fri Jul 29 15:15:24 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <2dbaf4d80507291118728bbe61@mail.gmail.com> References: <86523233-C3DD-486A-BC5C-4FADD8BE6C94@mac.com> <2dbaf4d80507291118728bbe61@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42EAAA81.9040704@charter.net> Skipped content of type multipart/alternative-------------- next part -------------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.9.7/60 - Release Date: 7/28/2005 From majestic_cheese at yahoo.com Fri Jul 29 17:26:07 2005 From: majestic_cheese at yahoo.com (Larry Dunn) Date: Fri Jul 29 17:26:10 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <200507291200.ac17580@deepthought.armory.com> Message-ID: <20050730002607.66427.qmail@web30008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Harold Johnson >So (and my apologies if anyone else has already >asked this question), is Joseph Minion A.K.A. Joe >Frank? Well, considering that it's been much discussed in this thread that JF sued Minion over the plaigarism, my guess would be, no, Joseph Minion is not Joe Frank. Unless he sued himself, of course! :p __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html From molokoman1 at mac.com Fri Jul 29 17:44:22 2005 From: molokoman1 at mac.com (Darwin Green) Date: Fri Jul 29 17:44:26 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <20050730002607.66427.qmail@web30008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20050730002607.66427.qmail@web30008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: The whole thing could always be a cover story to hide an association to "the industry" that he might not be so proud of. Perhaps a hiding in plain sight sort of thing. Maybe once someone brought it to his attention he decided to quell the barrage of questions that he would get over the issue with the concocted plan to make it look like he sued the writer and let him go, thus making it look like he forgave the so-called writer when in fact he couldn't sue him in the first place because the so-called writer was himself. Maybe I'm just going overboard. On Jul 29, 2005, at 5:26 PM, Larry Dunn wrote: > From: Harold Johnson > >> So (and my apologies if anyone else has already >> asked this question), is Joseph Minion A.K.A. Joe >> Frank? > > Well, considering that it's been much discussed in > this thread that JF sued Minion over the plaigarism, > my guess would be, no, Joseph Minion is not Joe Frank. > > > Unless he sued himself, of course! :p > > > > __________________________________ > Yahoo! Mail > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list From bewareofdog at mac.com Sat Jul 30 09:02:04 2005 From: bewareofdog at mac.com (bewareofdog@mac.com) Date: Sat Jul 30 09:02:09 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: References: <20050730002607.66427.qmail@web30008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4A43B525-DB67-47FA-84CA-13E5925770F0@mac.com> Now assuming that JF's "No Show" was a sincere portrayal of reality, I am still left with two major questions. Namely, the explanation behind Larry Block's appearance in the film, as well as the original script having the same title as Joe's show "Lies." Jjust were in the hell did Minion get the title, and how in g-d's name did have the brass to use it as his own? On Jul 29, 2005, at 8:44 PM, Darwin Green wrote: > The whole thing could always be a cover story to hide an > association to "the industry" that he might not be so proud of. > Perhaps a hiding in plain sight sort of thing. Maybe once someone > brought it to his attention he decided to quell the barrage of > questions that he would get over the issue with the concocted plan > to make it look like he sued the writer and let him go, thus making > it look like he forgave the so-called writer when in fact he > couldn't sue him in the first place because the so-called writer > was himself. > > Maybe I'm just going overboard. > > On Jul 29, 2005, at 5:26 PM, Larry Dunn wrote: > > >> From: Harold Johnson >> >> >>> So (and my apologies if anyone else has already >>> asked this question), is Joseph Minion A.K.A. Joe >>> Frank? >>> >> >> Well, considering that it's been much discussed in >> this thread that JF sued Minion over the plaigarism, >> my guess would be, no, Joseph Minion is not Joe Frank. >> >> >> Unless he sued himself, of course! :p >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> Yahoo! Mail >> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: >> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Joe Frank Mailing List >> joe-frank-list@armory.com >> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list >> > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > From harold.johnson at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 12:50:19 2005 From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson) Date: Sat Jul 30 12:50:22 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <20050730002607.66427.qmail@web30008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200507291200.ac17580@deepthought.armory.com> <20050730002607.66427.qmail@web30008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2dbaf4d805073012505aa06ae9@mail.gmail.com> On 7/29/05, Larry Dunn wrote: > From: Harold Johnson > > >So (and my apologies if anyone else has already > >asked this question), is Joseph Minion A.K.A. Joe > >Frank? > > Well, considering that it's been much discussed in > this thread that JF sued Minion over the plaigarism, > my guess would be, no, Joseph Minion is not Joe Frank. Yes, but perhaps that's nonsense - perhaps he never actually sued anyone. Perhaps it was simply a narrative, part of Joe's insatiable desire to reveal his alter ego, a screenwriter whose name is derived from both the Judaist sense of "minion" and the more commonly-known sense of the term... Harold J. Johnson http://Something ThatHappened.com From harold.johnson at gmail.com Sat Jul 30 12:51:59 2005 From: harold.johnson at gmail.com (Harold Johnson) Date: Sat Jul 30 12:52:02 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: References: <20050730002607.66427.qmail@web30008.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <2dbaf4d80507301251df4e000@mail.gmail.com> On 7/29/05, Darwin Green wrote: > Maybe I'm just going overboard. Or maybe you've guess it... H.J. From achavez382 at worldsavings.com Sun Jul 31 10:57:14 2005 From: achavez382 at worldsavings.com (Chavez, Aaron, ISD) Date: Sun Jul 31 10:57:20 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours Message-ID: <7BED8A15EDFE274D81BF3C76F3B23B9701EBA864@SA1EMS12.worldsavings.com> I would be perfectly comfortable assuming that Minion = Frank. Enjoying his work assumes that thing - the perspective that anybody on this list has - that thing that makes his work compelling. The acceptance of the absurd as part of God's Big Joke, the universe with a sense of humor and irony. Simplest solution - contact Joe Minion. Aaron Chavez there has never been quite such a fool who could fail to pull the whole sky over him with one smile e e cummings -----Original Message----- From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of bewareofdog@mac.com Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:02 AM To: Joe Frank Mailing List Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] After Hours Now assuming that JF's "No Show" was a sincere portrayal of reality, I am still left with two major questions. Namely, the explanation behind Larry Block's appearance in the film, as well as the original script having the same title as Joe's show "Lies." Jjust were in the hell did Minion get the title, and how in g-d's name did have the brass to use it as his own? On Jul 29, 2005, at 8:44 PM, Darwin Green wrote: > The whole thing could always be a cover story to hide an > association to "the industry" that he might not be so proud of. > Perhaps a hiding in plain sight sort of thing. Maybe once someone > brought it to his attention he decided to quell the barrage of > questions that he would get over the issue with the concocted plan > to make it look like he sued the writer and let him go, thus making > it look like he forgave the so-called writer when in fact he > couldn't sue him in the first place because the so-called writer > was himself. > > Maybe I'm just going overboard. > > On Jul 29, 2005, at 5:26 PM, Larry Dunn wrote: > > >> From: Harold Johnson >> >> >>> So (and my apologies if anyone else has already >>> asked this question), is Joseph Minion A.K.A. Joe >>> Frank? >>> >> >> Well, considering that it's been much discussed in >> this thread that JF sued Minion over the plaigarism, >> my guess would be, no, Joseph Minion is not Joe Frank. >> >> >> Unless he sued himself, of course! :p >> >> >> >> __________________________________ >> Yahoo! Mail >> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: >> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Joe Frank Mailing List >> joe-frank-list@armory.com >> http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list >> > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > _______________________________________________ Joe Frank Mailing List joe-frank-list@armory.com http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list ***************************************************************************** If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail, please notify the sender immediately. The contents of this e-mail do not amend any existing disclosures or agreements unless expressly stated. ***************************************************************************** From epierce at rcn.com Sun Jul 31 16:06:41 2005 From: epierce at rcn.com (Eric Pierce) Date: Sun Jul 31 16:06:50 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <2dbaf4d80507291118728bbe61@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Harold, all, I have my doubts about this Joseph Minion = Joe Frank theory. >From what I can tell Joseph Minion made an appearance at the Nantucket Film Festival in June 1999 with the showing of the film "On the Run" that he is credited with screenwriting. Here's an interesting quote from an article I found online. "However, there were some hard lessons to learn from many of the other screenwriters in attendance. Though most writers answered audience questions after the screenings of their films, one in particular, Joseph Minion (On the Run) had relatively little to offer. Minion wrote the screenplay at the request of the director, and he had little to no involvement in the production, as is most often the case in modern feature filmmaking. And perhaps unknowingly, Minion did provide the audience with the cold hard truth that the screenwriter's role and responsibility in the filmmaking effort is often minimal at best." -- Excerpt from http://www.insidefilm.com/nantucket.html Also, IMDB has Joeseph Minion listed as being born in 1957. Joe Frank is quite a bit older than that. - Eric > -----Original Message----- > From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com > [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com]On Behalf Of Harold Johnson > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2005 2:19 PM > To: Joe Frank Mailing List > Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] After Hours > > > So (and my apologies if anyone else has already asked this question), > is Joseph Minion A.K.A. Joe Frank? > > Harold J. Johnson > http://somethingthathappened.com > > On 7/23/05, bewareofdog@mac.com wrote: > > > > > > Alright, I'm probably in the dark, so to speak when it comes to this > > one... but the screenwriter on the 1985 Scorsese flick "After Hours" > > is credited to one Joseph Minion... > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list From Peisithanatos at aol.com Sun Jul 31 16:15:46 2005 From: Peisithanatos at aol.com (Peisithanatos@aol.com) Date: Sun Jul 31 16:15:54 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours Message-ID: Joseph Minion is not Joe Frank.... Just as Catherine Zeta Jones is not Kate.... Our imaginations are simply overactive, that's all; we discover a perplexing enigma of sorts, and our brains scramble to rationalize it in some seemingly logical way (which, 9 times out of 10, leads us to concocting all sorts of ridiculous scenarios). We need to let go of that compulsion and enjoy works of art for what they are without scrambling so desperately to rationalize/solve ever little detail/puzzle surrounding them. Scholars are still debating over who wrote the works of Shakespeare (Edward De Vere? Francis Bacon? Christopher Marlowe? Mary Sidney Herbert? A combination of the four???), whether F'Ugly Th3 Klown is, in fact Andy Kaufman (who faked his death, don't you know?) or a collection of other comedians & hotshot hollywood actors working in cahoots, whether Thomas Pynchon is actually Wanda Tinasky who is actually J.D. Salinger who was, actually, a former CIA agent before he passed away & was replaced by a new literary figure (J.D. Salinger Deux) enshrouded with mystery, etc.... All I'm saying is, you can speculate & debate & rack your brains & ponder away about all of these things 'till the cows come home... but there many ways in which you could idle away your time far more productively. In my mind, Joe (Frank, that is!) has already explained this whole situation in great detail, and, until he steps forward to change his tune, I have no reason to doubt that everything he said about this entire ordeal is pure truth. This is Joe Frank we're talking about here. As much as people like to play up the surreal/absurd aspects of the man's canon, his work is also unflinchingly truthful & autobiographical. A few more things to consider: 1.) Joe Frank is nearly 20 years older than Joseph Minion (according to the IMDB, which lists Minion's birthyear as 1957). Of course, I'm sure some of you will come forth to say, "No! When Joe Frank devised the alter-ego of "Joseph Minion" he also concoted a fake birth certificate & birth-year, so as to fool even the most clever of curious cats!" (if you wanna believe that, more power to ya!). 2.) Usually people use a pseudonym if either they're not proud of a particular work or simply don't want it to be associated with their real name. Joe (Frank!), however, has not only proudly used the material that Minion lifted to write "After Hours" -- in his original program, "Lies" -- but has also called Minion out on his literary theft (not by name, of course) & discussed the entire situation in "No Show" (which I still have, on cassette, in its entirety). But I guess the debate shall continue to bubble on until somebody (Joe Frank Team? Larry Block [whose appearance in this film is really what's been fuelling the notion that Joseph Minion might, in fact, be Joe Frank]?) steps forward to shed more light on this issue..... Hegesias -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20050731/ebeb421b/attachment.htm From ghastly_fop at yahoo.com Sun Jul 31 18:00:18 2005 From: ghastly_fop at yahoo.com (Levent) Date: Sun Jul 31 18:00:20 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20050801010018.50457.qmail@web52511.mail.yahoo.com> I'm with you. A bit of cursory googling reveals that Joe Minion really is just a middling screenwriter (and current film instructor?) I just find it breathtaking that the "After Hours" experience didn't find him permanently blacklisted in the film industry. It's just too bad (and good for Minion, I guess) that more people don't know about it. What a weasel. --- Peisithanatos@aol.com wrote: > Joseph Minion is not Joe Frank.... > > Just as Catherine Zeta Jones is not Kate.... > > Our imaginations are simply overactive, that's all; > we discover a perplexing > enigma of sorts, and our brains scramble to > rationalize it in some seemingly > logical way (which, 9 times out of 10, leads us to > concocting all sorts of > ridiculous scenarios). We need to let go of that > compulsion and enjoy works of > art for what they are without scrambling so > desperately to rationalize/solve > ever little detail/puzzle surrounding them. > Scholars are still debating over who > wrote the works of Shakespeare (Edward De Vere? > Francis Bacon? Christopher > Marlowe? Mary Sidney Herbert? A combination of the > four???), whether F'Ugly > Th3 Klown is, in fact Andy Kaufman (who faked his > death, don't you know?) or a > collection of other comedians & hotshot hollywood > actors working in cahoots, > whether Thomas Pynchon is actually Wanda Tinasky who > is actually J.D. Salinger > who was, actually, a former CIA agent before he > passed away & was replaced by > a new literary figure (J.D. Salinger Deux) > enshrouded with mystery, etc.... > > All I'm saying is, you can speculate & debate & rack > your brains & ponder > away about all of these things 'till the cows come > home... but there many ways in > which you could idle away your time far more > productively. > > In my mind, Joe (Frank, that is!) has already > explained this whole situation > in great detail, and, until he steps forward to > change his tune, I have no > reason to doubt that everything he said about this > entire ordeal is pure truth. > > This is Joe Frank we're talking about here. As much > as people like to play > up the surreal/absurd aspects of the man's canon, > his work is also > unflinchingly truthful & autobiographical. > > A few more things to consider: 1.) Joe Frank is > nearly 20 years older than > Joseph Minion (according to the IMDB, which lists > Minion's birthyear as 1957). > Of course, I'm sure some of you will come forth to > say, "No! When Joe Frank > devised the alter-ego of "Joseph Minion" he also > concoted a fake birth > certificate & birth-year, so as to fool even the > most clever of curious cats!" (if you > wanna believe that, more power to ya!). 2.) Usually > people use a pseudonym if > either they're not proud of a particular work or > simply don't want it to be > associated with their real name. Joe (Frank!), > however, has not only proudly > used the material that Minion lifted to write "After > Hours" -- in his original > program, "Lies" -- but has also called Minion out on > his literary theft (not > by name, of course) & discussed the entire situation > in "No Show" (which I > still have, on cassette, in its entirety). > > But I guess the debate shall continue to bubble on > until somebody (Joe Frank > Team? Larry Block [whose appearance in this film is > really what's been > fuelling the notion that Joseph Minion might, in > fact, be Joe Frank]?) steps forward > to shed more light on this issue..... > Hegesias > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From majestic_cheese at yahoo.com Sun Jul 31 18:34:28 2005 From: majestic_cheese at yahoo.com (Larry Dunn) Date: Sun Jul 31 18:34:31 2005 Subject: [joe-frank-list] After Hours In-Reply-To: <200507311200.ac28379@deepthought.armory.com> Message-ID: <20050801013428.92285.qmail@web30012.mail.mud.yahoo.com> From: Harold Johnson > Yes, but perhaps that's nonsense - perhaps he never > actually sued > anyone. Perhaps it was simply a narrative, part of > Joe's insatiable > desire to reveal his alter ego, a screenwriter whose > name is derived > from both the Judaist sense of "minion" and the more > commonly-known > sense of the term... Joseph Minion has written *five* films, and *directed* two others. I put it to you that it's just a bit of a stretch to believe that Joe Frank has played word games with an ongoing Hollywood career for "Judaist" purposes, n'est-ce pas? And to add to the drama, somehow concocted a law suit as some sort of performance art. Isn't it also a bit of a stretch to think that in LA -- where Joe Frank had a renowned radio show, and Joseph Minion writes and directs -- it wouldn't be widely known that JF is working in Hollywood, flamboyantly masquerading as "Joseph Minion?" ____________________________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs