From bobl at 1amsoftware.com Mon Oct 4 19:09:57 2004 From: bobl at 1amsoftware.com (Bob Lee) Date: Mon Oct 4 19:10:15 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] New Joe Frank !!! New Joe on line Oct 2004 Message-ID: <00b601c4aa80$6ecb75a0$6112060a@IBMBOBSX30> For those of you still on the Joe list like me waiting patiently for a new Joe Production. Your wait is over. "Time's Arrow " is on live on line now, Right now I am about half way through it. Classic Joe style Lots of Larry Block, Great music, Monologue and phone conversation style. As you all know I have never tried to make money from Joe, and I continue to not to make money from this sort of email. All I am is a fan, who has done what I can for years to support the work of Joe.. If we ever wanted Joe to know how much we think of him, might I suggest that everyone sign up for some subscription, Not only are the classic shows avail for listening, New Joe !! What more could you want. ? You know you need it... Bob Lee bobl@1amsoftware.com From Peisithanatos at aol.com Tue Oct 5 00:28:08 2004 From: Peisithanatos at aol.com (Peisithanatos@aol.com) Date: Tue Oct 5 00:28:14 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] New Joe Frank !!! New Joe on line Oct 2004 Message-ID: <1ea.2bc1ad6e.2e93a708@aol.com> Any idea as to when "Time's Arrow" will be made available for purchase through joefrank.com? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041005/aa77640e/attachment.htm From BobL at 1amsoftware.com Tue Oct 5 06:30:54 2004 From: BobL at 1amsoftware.com (Bob Lee) Date: Tue Oct 5 06:31:03 2004 Subject: Fw: [joe-frank-list] New Joe Frank !!! New Joe on line Oct 2004 Message-ID: <006b01c4aadf$8ab8eae0$51c06496@BOB> Sorry, but the people at Joefrank.com have always answered my questions... so I would ask them.. Bob Lee Any idea as to when "Time's Arrow" will be made available for purchase through joefrank.com? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ Joe Frank Mailing List joe-frank-list@armory.com http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041005/f21c9550/attachment.htm From shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu Sun Oct 10 21:22:57 2004 From: shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erik Shirokoff) Date: Sun Oct 10 21:23:02 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe, live in San Francisco! Message-ID: <20041011042257.GA5494@jabberwock.hopto.org> According to KPFA, Joe's going to be performing live in SF on Nov 21. The show is at the Great American Music Hall, with two shows set for 4pm and 8pm. I can't find mention of it on Joe's site, or the GAMH site. But, if you call the KPFA pledge desk you can get a ticket as a subscription premium. $60 gets you a ticket to the show, $100 to include a "meet and greet" event as well. To subscribe, call 510-848-5732 or 800-439-5732. I assume there will probably be some way to directly buy tickets later, but supporting a station who has faithfully played Joe for years (as well as a lot of other worthwhile programming) is a good cause. - Erik (has his ticket already) From arrigo at vision.caltech.edu Sun Oct 10 22:09:03 2004 From: arrigo at vision.caltech.edu (Arrigo Benedetti) Date: Sun Oct 10 22:09:31 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe, live in San Francisco! In-Reply-To: <20041011042257.GA5494@jabberwock.hopto.org> References: <20041011042257.GA5494@jabberwock.hopto.org> Message-ID: <416A156F.1000006@vision.caltech.edu> Erik Shirokoff wrote: >According to KPFA, Joe's going to be performing live in SF on Nov 21. The show is at the Great American Music Hall, with two shows set for 4pm and 8pm. > >I can't find mention of it on Joe's site, or the GAMH site. But, if you call the KPFA pledge desk you can get a ticket as a subscription premium. $60 gets you a ticket to the show, $100 to include a "meet and greet" event as well. > >To subscribe, call 510-848-5732 or 800-439-5732. > >I assume there will probably be some way to directly buy tickets later, but supporting a station who has faithfully played Joe for years (as well as a lot of other worthwhile programming) is a good cause. > >- Erik (has his ticket already) > > > They said that tickets will be available to the general public sometime next week. For a $100 pledge, you can even meet Joe in person at the after party!!! -Arrigo From ml at gondwanaland.com Sun Oct 10 22:32:26 2004 From: ml at gondwanaland.com (Mike Linksvayer) Date: Sun Oct 10 22:32:34 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe, live in San Francisco! In-Reply-To: <416A156F.1000006@vision.caltech.edu> References: <20041011042257.GA5494@jabberwock.hopto.org> <416A156F.1000006@vision.caltech.edu> Message-ID: <20041011053226.GA12302@or.pair.com> YAY, I'M GONNA SEE MY SPIRITUAL GURU! :-) -- Mike Linksvayer http://gondwanaland.com/ml/ From Jargonym at aol.com Tue Oct 26 18:14:27 2004 From: Jargonym at aol.com (Jargonym@aol.com) Date: Tue Oct 26 18:14:35 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours a day? Message-ID: <8.5ab0a4d6.2eb05073@aol.com> I've recently been listening to a radio station in Chicago, 87.9 FM, which is playing Joe Frank material around the clock-? Joe Frank and only Joe Frank shows for 24 hours a day! .... no announcements, no station IDs, and you can only hear them in certain parts of the North Side, basically from about Addison on the south to Touhy on the north, with Lake Michigan on the east and almost to Harlem on the west, at least I could hear them in some places in that area as I drove around - I'm a taxi driver in Chicago. The audio quality is very good and it's GREAT having Joe Frank on at just the twist of a dial. (It also reminded me to get my tickets for Joe's performance here on Friday...) So far I haven't heard any programs repeat. This is a mystery! There's been no announcements or on-air explanation of what it is. Whatever it is, it's GREAT! Anybody else out there on Chicago's north side that can hear this at 87.9 on FM? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041026/b9820ddd/attachment.htm From natsoulas at yahoo.com Tue Oct 26 19:47:18 2004 From: natsoulas at yahoo.com (Tony Natsoulas) Date: Tue Oct 26 19:48:50 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours a day? In-Reply-To: <8.5ab0a4d6.2eb05073@aol.com> Message-ID: <20041027024718.67257.qmail@web54406.mail.yahoo.com> Can you get it on the web? tony --- Jargonym@aol.com wrote: > I've recently been listening to a radio station in > Chicago, 87.9 FM, which is > playing Joe Frank material around the clock- Joe > Frank and only Joe Frank > shows for 24 hours a day! .... no announcements, no > station IDs, and you can > only hear them in certain parts of the North Side, > basically from about Addison > on the south to Touhy on the north, with Lake > Michigan on the east and almost > to Harlem on the west, at least I could hear them in > some places in that area > as I drove around - I'm a taxi driver in Chicago. > > The audio quality is very good and it's GREAT having > Joe Frank on at just the > twist of a dial. (It also reminded me to get my > tickets for Joe's performance > here on Friday...) > > So far I haven't heard any programs repeat. > > This is a mystery! There's been no announcements or > on-air explanation of > what it is. Whatever it is, it's GREAT! > > Anybody else out there on Chicago's north side that > can hear this at 87.9 on > FM? > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > ===== Tony and Donna Natsoulas natsoulas@yahoo.com Webpage:http://www.tonynatsoulas.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From beau at nwcr.net Tue Oct 26 20:07:18 2004 From: beau at nwcr.net (Beau Gunderson) Date: Tue Oct 26 20:09:41 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours aday? In-Reply-To: <8.5ab0a4d6.2eb05073@aol.com> Message-ID: <200410262009.aa27680@deepthought.armory.com> I looked up 87.9 and found some interesting stuff; it could be a class D educational station or it could be a pirate station because 87.9 as a regular licensed channel only exists in four cities (Chicago not being one of them) I know there are mini-broadcasting accessories for Ipods and other MP3 players (and that they can be modified to provide a higher-power output) . It sounds like either that or a more traditional pirate station (although probably still involving a computer if they have a ton of episodes-they used to be traded quite frequently as mp3s) Looks like there are other nearby 87.9 stations too: http://www.radio-info.com/mods/board?Post=279917 &Board=chicago http://www.mindspring.com/~ttmdoc/FM_Chcgo_Scan.htm _____ From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Jargonym@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 6:14 PM To: joe-frank-list@armory.com Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours aday? I've recently been listening to a radio station in Chicago, 87.9 FM, which is playing Joe Frank material around the clock- Joe Frank and only Joe Frank shows for 24 hours a day! .... no announcements, no station IDs, and you can only hear them in certain parts of the North Side, basically from about Addison on the south to Touhy on the north, with Lake Michigan on the east and almost to Harlem on the west, at least I could hear them in some places in that area as I drove around - I'm a taxi driver in Chicago. The audio quality is very good and it's GREAT having Joe Frank on at just the twist of a dial. (It also reminded me to get my tickets for Joe's performance here on Friday...) So far I haven't heard any programs repeat. This is a mystery! There's been no announcements or on-air explanation of what it is. Whatever it is, it's GREAT! Anybody else out there on Chicago's north side that can hear this at 87.9 on FM? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041026/75b603f6/attachment.htm From matthewshepherd at hotmail.com Wed Oct 27 03:44:08 2004 From: matthewshepherd at hotmail.com (Matthew Shepherd) Date: Wed Oct 27 03:45:06 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours aday? Message-ID: If you enjoy it, I suggest you stop mentioning it to other people right now. It sounds like somebody is running a microtransmitter for their own listening pleasure and the signal is bleeding out. A guy in the administrative offices of the university I used to work at did that -- he bought an old transmitter from a drive-in movie theatre, hooked it up to a 100-CD changer full of classical music, and everyone in the building tuned in all day. This is the sort of thing that the CRTC (or the FCC for you folks) usually doesn't worry too much about, but if it's drawn to their attention they're obliged to go all Pump Up The Volume on people. - Matt http://www.man-man.org >From: Jargonym@aol.com >Reply-To: Joe Frank Mailing List <joe-frank-list@armory.com> >To: joe-frank-list@armory.com >Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours aday? >Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:14:27 EDT > >I've recently been listening to a radio station in Chicago, 87.9 FM, which is >playing Joe Frank material around the clock- Joe Frank and only Joe Frank >shows for 24 hours a day! .... no announcements, no station IDs, and you can >only hear them in certain parts of the North Side, basically from about Addison >on the south to Touhy on the north, with Lake Michigan on the east and almost >to Harlem on the west, at least I could hear them in some places in that area >as I drove around - I'm a taxi driver in Chicago. > >The audio quality is very good and it's GREAT having Joe Frank on at just the >twist of a dial. (It also reminded me to get my tickets for Joe's performance >here on Friday...) > >So far I haven't heard any programs repeat. > >This is a mystery! There's been no announcements or on-air explanation of >what it is. Whatever it is, it's GREAT! > >Anybody else out there on Chicago's north side that can hear this at 87.9 on >FM? >_______________________________________________ >Joe Frank Mailing List >joe-frank-list@armory.com >http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list From rholland356 at yahoo.com Wed Oct 27 09:22:14 2004 From: rholland356 at yahoo.com (Robert Holland) Date: Wed Oct 27 09:23:50 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours a day? In-Reply-To: <8.5ab0a4d6.2eb05073@aol.com> Message-ID: <20041027162214.49872.qmail@web13801.mail.yahoo.com> I wonder how they are paying Joe for the use of his material. You know, 'cuz Joe Frank is not in the public domain... --- Jargonym@aol.com wrote: > I've recently been listening to a radio station in > Chicago, 87.9 FM, which is > playing Joe Frank material around the clock-  Joe > Frank and only Joe Frank > shows for 24 hours a day! .... no announcements, no > station IDs, and you can > only hear them in certain parts of the North Side, > basically from about Addison > on the south to Touhy on the north, with Lake > Michigan on the east and almost > to Harlem on the west, at least I could hear them in > some places in that area > as I drove around - I'm a taxi driver in Chicago. > > The audio quality is very good and it's GREAT having > Joe Frank on at just the > twist of a dial. (It also reminded me to get my > tickets for Joe's performance > here on Friday...) > > So far I haven't heard any programs repeat. > > This is a mystery! There's been no announcements or > on-air explanation of > what it is. Whatever it is, it's GREAT! > > Anybody else out there on Chicago's north side that > can hear this at 87.9 on > FM? > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From Peisithanatos at aol.com Wed Oct 27 15:30:55 2004 From: Peisithanatos at aol.com (Peisithanatos@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 27 15:31:05 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours aday? Message-ID: <15b.42839234.2eb17b9f@aol.com> "... to go all Pump up the Volume on people" haha! That's gut-busting! My take on the matter is, if Joe Frank isn't being compensated for this in any way, then it ought to be stopped -- regardless of how it's being transmitted. People can still hear Joe on the radio in Chicago on WBEZ... otherwise, they ought to just purchase his shows through joefrank.com and support the man's work. We're all very lucky that Joe has been out in the public eye lately -- performing LIVE for his fans, as well as producing new material for his website (Allah only knows what else the Man's got up his sleeve!) -- so, if you absolutely can't resist the temptation to tune in to stations airing pirated broadcasts of Joe's work (if, indeed, that's what the case is in this situation), at least be sure that you stop by joefrank.com and purchase a few programs to show your support. Tell a friend, too! Put some new folks on to the genius of Joe Frank, and tell them to pass the word. Pick up a can of spray-paint and tag "www.JoeFrank.com" all over your neighborhood (haha!). Grab a Sharpie and scrawl "For a good time, visit www.joefrank.com" in every public bathroom stall you can find! Make yourself an "I (heart) JoeFrank.com" bumper-sticker! Anything we can do to show our support for Joe Frank will make a difference. Long Live Joe Frank! Preach on, Prophet! Preach on! Hegesias -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041027/618f21ed/attachment.htm From mmounce at nca-architects.com Wed Oct 27 15:43:59 2004 From: mmounce at nca-architects.com (Michael Mounce) Date: Wed Oct 27 15:42:27 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hoursaday? Message-ID: *L* Pirate Radio = bad... petty vandalism = good.... M. M o u n c e -----Original Message----- From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com]On Behalf Of Peisithanatos@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 4:31 PM To: joe-frank-list@armory.com Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hoursaday? "... to go all Pump up the Volume on people" haha! That's gut-busting! My take on the matter is, if Joe Frank isn't being compensated for this in any way, then it ought to be stopped -- regardless of how it's being transmitted. People can still hear Joe on the radio in Chicago on WBEZ... otherwise, they ought to just purchase his shows through joefrank.com and support the man's work. We're all very lucky that Joe has been out in the public eye lately -- performing LIVE for his fans, as well as producing new material for his website (Allah only knows what else the Man's got up his sleeve!) -- so, if you absolutely can't resist the temptation to tune in to stations airing pirated broadcasts of Joe's work (if, indeed, that's what the case is in this situation), at least be sure that you stop by joefrank.com and purchase a few programs to show your support. Tell a friend, too! Put some new folks on to the genius of Joe Frank, and tell them to pass the word. Pick up a can of spray-paint and tag "www.JoeFrank.com" all over your neighborhood (haha!). Grab a Sharpie and scrawl "For a good time, visit www.joefrank.com" in every public bathroom stall you can find! Make yourself an "I (heart) JoeFrank.com" bumper-sticker! Anything we can do to show our support for Joe Frank will make a difference. Long Live Joe Frank! Preach on, Prophet! Preach on! Hegesias -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041027/51bec8cd/attachment.htm From Peisithanatos at aol.com Wed Oct 27 18:38:05 2004 From: Peisithanatos at aol.com (Peisithanatos@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 27 18:38:33 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hoursaday? Message-ID: <1de.2cea3572.2eb1a77d@aol.com> haha! I wasn't quite serious about the spray paint or Sharpie bits (though, I do believe that bathroom graffiti transcended the realm of mere vandalism when an entire anthropological field of study -- latrinology -- was developed around it!)... that was just a manifestation of my goofy sense of humor. If my words have encouraged any youngsters out there to deface innocent bathroom stalls, or if you are the owner of a public restroom which has suddenly been plastered with links to JoeFrank.com, I can only offer you my deepest apologies for inciting the impressionable youth in such an inexpiable way. And I'm definitely not against "Pirate Radio" of the "Pump up the Volume" variety (ha!), where an individual (or group of individuals) is producing their own material. But to take another man's work and broadcast it across the airwaves 24 hours a day without permission (if, indeed, that is what's been happening in this case) is just downright wrong. That's just my two. Hegesias -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041027/d638813f/attachment.htm From Jargonym at aol.com Wed Oct 27 21:53:46 2004 From: Jargonym at aol.com (Jargonym@aol.com) Date: Wed Oct 27 21:53:58 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours a day Message-ID: <140.35ee1004.2eb1d55a@aol.com> In a message dated 10/27/2004 2:00:44 PM Central Daylight Time, joe-frank-list-request@armory.com writes: > I wonder how they are paying Joe for the use of his > material. > OK I got the skinny on this broadcast from of friend of a friend; the broadcast is being done by an artist (or group of artists, my source didn't know) in Chicago who have done other "electronic free speech" and "nonlinear radio" things in Chicago. I understand that all the material being aired was purchased from Joe Frank on CD, and that since this is a noncommercial use there's not a question of "someone making money off Joe's work." I'm sure Joe's staff reads these email postings, perhaps they have some opinion on this. Or maybe the people responsible for this will come forward..... Don't forget to keep this in perspective- this isn't someone ripping Joe off and playing his stuff to make money for him/herself that Joe will never see, not to mention the fact that it's only covering a certain area on the North side of Chicago, not the country or even the whole city. Also, I'm sure it will only be on for a limited duration. If 30 people ever hear this broadcast it'd be a lot. I mean, who besides radio hobbyists and lonely cabbies sit there tuning around on their radios? Most people set the station memories and leave it at that. I've heard quite a bit of this Joe broadcast - I drive a cab in the broadcast area- and I have heard SOME repeated material now over the past two weeks, but not that much. I'd say there is about 50- 100 hours of Joe material here, and at $15 an hour (which is about the cost of CDs, when you figure shipping) that's $750-$1500 spent on Joe Frank recordings, not to mention who knows how much for the transmitter. I don't know about you, but I've not spent $750 on Joe Frank CDs, I have listened mostly to MP3's which used to be available and WBEZ here for my weekly one-hour fix. I'd say whoever is doing this has offered at least some financial support to the artist.... more than I have, anyway. In my opinion, this is NOT one of those MP3 radio deals, because the signal comes in too well over too large an area. The coverage area is about the same as some 100-watt college stations here in Chicago, and the audio quality is really good, so I'd say this is more than some jury-rigged setup. I have to say, the effect of listening to these shows end to end is kind of profound, it certainly has more impact than just the usual one-hour-a-week format. As far as the FCC is concerned, I don't see them on the Joe Frank discussion EMAIL mailing list so unless John Ashcroft is reading all my EMAIL I think this "Radio Free Joe" operation is safe for the period of time they are likely to be running. It's inspired me, I really enjoyed what I heard today and I am for sure gonna subscribe to the Joe Frank website. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041028/40ad9867/attachment.htm From rholland356 at yahoo.com Thu Oct 28 10:13:58 2004 From: rholland356 at yahoo.com (Robert Holland) Date: Thu Oct 28 10:15:30 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours a day In-Reply-To: <140.35ee1004.2eb1d55a@aol.com> Message-ID: <20041028171358.96175.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com> Whew! You protest too much! And you sure know a lot about what's going on there. You know, for a cabbie, that is... I consider you one lucky guy to be able to dial in Joe Frank on the radio, and your fares are even luckier, getting to listen to Joe during your ride. I'm sure that makes for a pleasant ride, and -hey- if they ask you to keep the meter running while they listen to a full piece, so much the better! Har! Robert --- Jargonym@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/27/2004 2:00:44 PM Central > Daylight Time, > joe-frank-list-request@armory.com writes: > > > I wonder how they are paying Joe for the use of > his > > material. > > > > OK I got the skinny on this broadcast from of > friend of a friend; the > broadcast is being done by an artist (or group of > artists, my source didn't know) in > Chicago who have done other "electronic free speech" > and "nonlinear radio" > things in Chicago. I understand that all the > material being aired was purchased > from Joe Frank on CD, and that since this is a > noncommercial use there's not > a question of "someone making money off Joe's work." > > > I'm sure Joe's staff reads these email postings, > perhaps they have some > opinion on this. Or maybe the people responsible for > this will come forward..... > > Don't forget to keep this in perspective- this isn't > someone ripping Joe off > and playing his stuff to make money for him/herself > that Joe will never see, > not to mention the fact that it's only covering a > certain area on the North > side of Chicago, not the country or even the whole > city. Also, I'm sure it will > only be on for a limited duration. If 30 people ever > hear this broadcast it'd > be a lot. I mean, who besides radio hobbyists and > lonely cabbies sit there > tuning around on their radios? Most people set the > station memories and leave it > at that. > > I've heard quite a bit of this Joe broadcast - I > drive a cab in the broadcast > area- and I have heard SOME repeated material now > over the past two weeks, > but not that much. I'd say there is about 50- 100 > hours of Joe material here, > and at $15 an hour (which is about the cost of CDs, > when you figure shipping) > that's $750-$1500 spent on Joe Frank recordings, not > to mention who knows how > much for the transmitter. I don't know about you, > but I've not spent $750 on > Joe Frank CDs, I have listened mostly to MP3's which > used to be available and > WBEZ here for my weekly one-hour fix. I'd say > whoever is doing this has > offered at least some financial support to the > artist.... more than I have, anyway. > > In my opinion, this is NOT one of those MP3 radio > deals, because the signal > comes in too well over too large an area. The > coverage area is about the same > as some 100-watt college stations here in Chicago, > and the audio quality is > really good, so I'd say this is more than some > jury-rigged setup. > > I have to say, the effect of listening to these > shows end to end is kind of > profound, it certainly has more impact than just the > usual one-hour-a-week > format. > > > As far as the FCC is concerned, I don't see them on > the Joe Frank discussion > EMAIL mailing list so unless John Ashcroft is > reading all my EMAIL I think > this "Radio Free Joe" operation is safe for the > period of time they are likely to > be running. > > It's inspired me, I really enjoyed what I heard > today and I am for sure gonna > subscribe to the Joe Frank website. > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail From Jargonym at aol.com Thu Oct 28 10:51:11 2004 From: Jargonym at aol.com (Jargonym@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 28 10:51:28 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] RE: "well informed for a taxi driver" Message-ID: <6A0BFB5F.65C33E94.00760637@aol.com> Hmmm, what, taxi drivers can't be smart people, involved in something beyond driving a cab like- say- the arts? I'm a painter. The kind that makes pictures on canvass, not faux finishes on drywall. (Though I have done that, too) Very few people earn a living as a painter. I certainly don't. So I have a "day job" - I know lots of folks on the Chicago art scene. I know people in public radio, in college radio, etc. etc. So when I heard this broadcast I checked into it with my contacts. From matthewshepherd at hotmail.com Thu Oct 28 10:58:40 2004 From: matthewshepherd at hotmail.com (Matt on Hotmail) Date: Thu Oct 28 10:59:12 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] RE: "well informed for a taxi driver" References: <6A0BFB5F.65C33E94.00760637@aol.com> Message-ID: Man, from behind this desk in this cubicle, I'm thinkin' cab drivers are a whole lot smarter than me, that's for damn sure. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 1:51 PM Subject: [joe-frank-list] RE: "well informed for a taxi driver" > Hmmm, what, taxi drivers can't be smart people, involved in something beyond driving a cab like- say- the arts? > > I'm a painter. The kind that makes pictures on canvass, not faux finishes on drywall. (Though I have done that, too) Very few people earn a living as a painter. I certainly don't. So I have a "day job" - > > I know lots of folks on the Chicago art scene. I know people in public radio, in college radio, etc. etc. So when I heard this broadcast I checked into it with my contacts. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > From BillMilosz at aol.com Thu Oct 28 13:19:31 2004 From: BillMilosz at aol.com (BillMilosz@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 28 13:19:47 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] RE: "well informed for a taxi driver" ALSO: some ? Message-ID: <7C096E19.533833C6.0AC03AB1@aol.com> >>Man, from behind this desk in this cubicle, I'm thinkin' cab drivers are a whole lot smarter than me, that's for damn sure.<< 10,000 years of civilisation and we end up with .....Cubicles! That reminds me, I have to remember to put a coversheet on the TPS report from now on, I think there was a memo....... ;-) Well, at least I don't have to worry that someone is gonna poke a pistol in my face and demand the day's fares..... that's some compensation for driving a desk, I guess. -----Questions----- Does anybody know if Joe's live shows (Chicago tomorrow and San Francisco coming up) are being recorded for the Joe Frank web site? Does anyone know where one could get a copy of the short film "Memories by Joe Frank" directed by Paul Rachman? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0163296/fullcredits ) From fsedghip at yahoo.ca Thu Oct 28 13:24:44 2004 From: fsedghip at yahoo.ca (Frank Sedghipour) Date: Thu Oct 28 13:26:19 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours a day In-Reply-To: <140.35ee1004.2eb1d55a@aol.com> Message-ID: <20041028202444.13549.qmail@web53605.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks for setting the record on this one. I think (or hope) that Joe agrees with you. That he really does want his work to be out there so that people can listen to it. The real question is then, why is Joe Frank not in the public domain? Some of his shows are bar-non the best I've heard. Those in Chicago who can get the show are very lucky. And I don't think it's a bad idea. First of all, it's great publicity for Joe Frank. Second, not everyone who likes Joe's work can afford to buy them. I can vouch for that. I'm a college student, and I have to work and borrow money to cover my tuition. For the time being, I can't afford the luxury of buying the man's cd's. But someday, hopefully I can (at least that's what my college is promising). I've also just recently been introduced to his work. And have raved about him to all of my friends and many professors-who can buy his work. In turn it's good for Joe, because although I cannot afford his shows, the more exposure I get to them, the more publicity he gets from me. And also, I may become a more inspired person and do better things for this world. I'd argue then that somehow, those who do not have the finances to buy Joe's work, should still be able to get access. First, it's intellectual material. Imagine what kind of society we'd be living in if only those who could afford to buy library memberships could get access to the library. The current arrangement, robs millions of potential listeners of a great intellectual experience, and instead many turn to brain numbing radio entertainmen in the form of talk shows, sports and songs by Eminem and Britney Spears. But my argument is not limited to issues of equity and justice alone. I obviously would like Joe to be rewarded for the great work that he puts out. In terms of Joe making money. The argument for on-line music applies here as well. Those who like his work, and appreciate it, will in turn buy or donate money to support his work. I've done this with songs that I've downloaded free off of my friends, but then, actually wrote checks to the musicians themselves. Furthermore, I'd argue that the widespread availability of Joe's Shows is great publicity, and will in turn attract a much greater fan base to his work. For instance, if such a radio show was available around the world, those who tune in and like particular shows could go to his site and order them. It's the greatest kind of marketing there is, because the show itself is doing the marketing. And a lot of money is not being spent on Joe's behalf to indirectly market his products. So by making his shows available online, Joe's increasing his fan base, increasing his customer base, and cutting on marketing costs -- one of the biggest wastes in our economy today, 1/5 of all spending is spent on marketing, which in-of-itself produces nothing. So make Joe's shows public, just like www.thislife.org . Here, you can listen to shows for free, but also purchase them on CD. If joe's producers don't like this idea, then they can make his show's play around the clock in random sequence. That way, those who like certain shows and want to listen to them at their discretion, will be forced to buy the cds. Nontheless, make Joe's radio public, and everyone's interests would be better served. Of course, there is a caveat here. While listeners will no doubt better off if Joe's shows are made public, the same argument is not necessarily true for Joe. Since, there is little in the way of intellectually stimulating radio programming being produced, either on radio or television, Joe's product is unique. This makes demand for his shows inelastic. That is, he could raise the prices of his shows, and those interested would still buy them. If Joe can in fact do that, then, it may be the case that he can make more profits by not going public. I am not trying to demonize Joe here. I know that there are other producers and decision makers involved. However, if anyone of them has even the most rudimentary understanding of economics, this is how they would probably see it. And thus, they would be enticed not to make Joe's shows public. Aside from this reason, I do not know why Joe's shows are not public. But like I mentioned earlier, I've just recently been introduced to his shows and don't know much about its history. If there are other reasons, perhaps someone can fill me in. Frank served by Joe's work being available to the public, this is not necessarily true for Joe's producers. It may very well be that they can make more money by making subscription mandatory. Jargonym@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 10/27/2004 2:00:44 PM Central Daylight Time, joe-frank-list-request@armory.com writes: I wonder how they are paying Joe for the use of his material. OK I got the skinny on this broadcast from of friend of a friend; the broadcast is being done by an artist (or group of artists, my source didn't know) in Chicago who have done other "electronic free speech" and "nonlinear radio" things in Chicago. I understand that all the material being aired was purchased from Joe Frank on CD, and that since this is a noncommercial use there's not a question of "someone making money off Joe's work." I'm sure Joe's staff reads these email postings, perhaps they have some opinion on this. Or maybe the people responsible for this will come forward..... Don't forget to keep this in perspective- this isn't someone ripping Joe off and playing his stuff to make money for him/herself that Joe will never see, not to mention the fact that it's only covering a certain area on the North side of Chicago, not the country or even the whole city. Also, I'm sure it will only be on for a limited duration. If 30 people ever hear this broadcast it'd be a lot. I mean, who besides radio hobbyists and lonely cabbies sit there tuning around on their radios? Most people set the station memories and leave it at that. I've heard quite a bit of this Joe broadcast - I drive a cab in the broadcast area- and I have heard SOME repeated material now over the past two weeks, but not that much. I'd say there is about 50- 100 hours of Joe material here, and at $15 an hour (which is about the cost of CDs, when you figure shipping) that's $750-$1500 spent on Joe Frank recordings, not to mention who knows how much for the transmitter. I don't know about you, but I've not spent $750 on Joe Frank CDs, I have listened mostly to MP3's which used to be available and WBEZ here for my weekly one-hour fix. I'd say whoever is doing this has offered at least some financial support to the artist.... more than I have, anyway. In my opinion, this is NOT one of those MP3 radio deals, because the signal comes in too well over too large an area. The coverage area is about the same as some 100-watt college stations here in Chicago, and the audio quality is really good, so I'd say this is more than some jury-rigged setup. I have to say, the effect of listening to these shows end to end is kind of profound, it certainly has more impact than just the usual one-hour-a-week format. As far as the FCC is concerned, I don't see them on the Joe Frank discussion EMAIL mailing list so unless John Ashcroft is reading all my EMAIL I think this "Radio Free Joe" operation is safe for the period of time they are likely to be running. It's inspired me, I really enjoyed what I heard today and I am for sure gonna subscribe to the Joe Frank website. _______________________________________________ Joe Frank Mailing List joe-frank-list@armory.com http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041028/ae5c75b6/attachment.htm From natsoulas at yahoo.com Thu Oct 28 22:43:39 2004 From: natsoulas at yahoo.com (Tony Natsoulas) Date: Thu Oct 28 22:45:11 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] RE: "well informed for a taxi driver" In-Reply-To: <6A0BFB5F.65C33E94.00760637@aol.com> Message-ID: <20041029054339.24925.qmail@web54408.mail.yahoo.com> What is your website? I listen to Joe while making my sculptures. Tony --- Jargonym@aol.com wrote: > Hmmm, what, taxi drivers can't be smart people, > involved in something beyond driving a cab like- > say- the arts? > > I'm a painter. The kind that makes pictures on > canvass, not faux finishes on drywall. (Though I > have done that, too) Very few people earn a living > as a painter. I certainly don't. So I have a "day > job" - > > I know lots of folks on the Chicago art scene. I > know people in public radio, in college radio, etc. > etc. So when I heard this broadcast I checked into > it with my contacts. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > ===== Tony and Donna Natsoulas natsoulas@yahoo.com Webpage:http://www.tonynatsoulas.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From BILLMILOSZ at aol.com Thu Oct 28 23:08:31 2004 From: BILLMILOSZ at aol.com (BILLMILOSZ@aol.com) Date: Thu Oct 28 23:08:40 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public Message-ID: To fsedghip@yahoo.ca - you raised some very interesting ideas, I found your post thought-provoking. Obviously you took some time putting that together. As I consider the issues you raised, many of which impact all of us as consumers of electronic "art" (music, film, literature, etc.) I want to make a few observations. You mention ThisLife.Org - Ira Glass's THIS AMERICAN LIFE program which is carried on NPR and originates at WBEZ in Chicago. There is an exact parallel here, Joe Frank used to have a radio "home" at KCRW in Santa Monica, and they supported him with some money, maybe some administrative help and also provided a studio and gear, etc. But Joe and KCRW had some kind of falling out, if not a falling out then at least a parting of the ways. I'm not sure what it was all about, except I know Joe is unhappy about something which he may have experienced as betrayal or some other negative action by KCRW or it's management. I can't find any info about it, all I've heard / read /seen from Joe on the issue is, "Oh, let's not go into that, let's just move on." I don't know what went wrong, but KCRW DOES seem to have retreated from any position of leadership they may have had in terms of free speech and the arts, and they seem to be getting more conservative. Maybe it's all that money- I've read that KCRW raises more $$$ than any other NPR affiliate. In any event, Joe Frank doesn't have a "patron" in the same way that Ira Glass does at WBEZ, so he can't offer all his stuff for free. It USED to be online for free at KCRW, but those days have passed. (Maybe Ira Glass should pay some royalties to Joe, after all he learned his craft as an intern on Joe's show- some of the This American Life programs even use some of the same music used in Joe Frank programs..... but actually I doubt if Ira Glass & CO have money laying around in great heaps.) Maybe we all need to writing our congressmen to have Joe declared a living national treasure and have his work supported by a lifetime federal stipend or something, but you know all that security might take the edge off his work. ;-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041029/bcbe6a67/attachment.htm From beau at nwcr.net Thu Oct 28 23:24:16 2004 From: beau at nwcr.net (Beau Gunderson) Date: Thu Oct 28 23:24:18 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200410282324.aa27208@deepthought.armory.com> Tried in vain to find the article on joefrank.com about him getting fired (it was more about the other woman fired by Seymour but it was pretty informative) but it's not there anymore! I even checked the Wayback machine but it wasn't on there either. I remember it being linked from the front page, anybody else know what I'm talking about? _____ From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of BILLMILOSZ@aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:09 PM To: joe-frank-list@armory.com Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public To fsedghip@yahoo.ca - you raised some very interesting ideas, I found your post thought-provoking. Obviously you took some time putting that together. As I consider the issues you raised, many of which impact all of us as consumers of electronic "art" (music, film, literature, etc.) I want to make a few observations. You mention ThisLife.Org - Ira Glass's THIS AMERICAN LIFE program which is carried on NPR and originates at WBEZ in Chicago. There is an exact parallel here, Joe Frank used to have a radio "home" at KCRW in Santa Monica, and they supported him with some money, maybe some administrative help and also provided a studio and gear, etc. But Joe and KCRW had some kind of falling out, if not a falling out then at least a parting of the ways. I'm not sure what it was all about, except I know Joe is unhappy about something which he may have experienced as betrayal or some other negative action by KCRW or it's management. I can't find any info about it, all I've heard / read /seen from Joe on the issue is, "Oh, let's not go into that, let's just move on." I don't know what went wrong, but KCRW DOES seem to have retreated from any position of leadership they may have had in terms of free speech and the arts, and they seem to be getting more conservative. Maybe it's all that money- I've read that KCRW raises more $$$ than any other NPR affiliate. In any event, Joe Frank doesn't have a "patron" in the same way that Ira Glass does at WBEZ, so he can't offer all his stuff for free. It USED to be online for free at KCRW, but those days have passed. (Maybe Ira Glass should pay some royalties to Joe, after all he learned his craft as an intern on Joe's show- some of the This American Life programs even use some of the same music used in Joe Frank programs..... but actually I doubt if Ira Glass & CO have money laying around in great heaps.) Maybe we all need to writing our congressmen to have Joe declared a living national treasure and have his work supported by a lifetime federal stipend or something, but you know all that security might take the edge off his work. ;-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041028/0a867336/attachment-0001.htm From shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu Fri Oct 29 01:34:01 2004 From: shiro at uclink4.berkeley.edu (Erik Shirokoff) Date: Fri Oct 29 01:34:14 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public In-Reply-To: <200410282324.aa27208@deepthought.armory.com> References: <200410282324.aa27208@deepthought.armory.com> Message-ID: <20041029083401.GA12570@jabberwock.hopto.org> The article seems to have disappeared completely from the web site. I've got a copy of the page from 2004-05-01. If anyone wants it, let me know. I'm not posting it to the list just in case Joe has a compelling reason to want it gone. You could make the case that by posting something online one is inviting its eternal public survival, and I'd happily agree demanding that people not post archives of a web site is unreasonable. At the same time, if Joe wants the page eliminated, I'm not inclined to annoy him by adding a copy to the mailing list archive for all eternity. It would certainly piss me off if a fan made copies of everything I wrote online and reposted it years later. (There are certainly benefits to working in a field which doesn't generate fans.) - Erik On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:24:16PM -0700, Beau Gunderson wrote: > Tried in vain to find the article on joefrank.com about him getting fired > (it was more about the other woman fired by Seymour but it was pretty > informative) but it's not there anymore! I even checked the Wayback machine > but it wasn't on there either. I remember it being linked from the front > page, anybody else know what I'm talking about? > > > > > > _____ > > From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com > [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of BILLMILOSZ@aol.com > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:09 PM > To: joe-frank-list@armory.com > Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public > > > > To fsedghip@yahoo.ca - you raised some very interesting ideas, I found your > post thought-provoking. Obviously you took some time putting that together. > > As I consider the issues you raised, many of which impact all of us as > consumers of electronic "art" (music, film, literature, etc.) I want to > make a few observations. > > You mention ThisLife.Org - Ira Glass's THIS AMERICAN LIFE program which is > carried on NPR and originates at WBEZ in Chicago. There is an exact > parallel here, Joe Frank used to have a radio "home" at KCRW in Santa > Monica, and they supported him with some money, maybe some administrative > help and also provided a studio and gear, etc. But Joe and KCRW had some > kind of falling out, if not a falling out then at least a parting of the > ways. I'm not sure what it was all about, except I know Joe is unhappy > about something which he may have experienced as betrayal or some other > negative action by KCRW or it's management. I can't find any info about it, > all I've heard / read /seen from Joe on the issue is, "Oh, let's not go into > that, let's just move on." I don't know what went wrong, but KCRW DOES seem > to have retreated from any position of leadership they may have had in terms > of free speech and the arts, and they seem to be getting more conservative. > Maybe it's all that money- I've read that KCRW raises more $$$ than any > other NPR affiliate. > > In any event, Joe Frank doesn't have a "patron" in the same way that Ira > Glass does at WBEZ, so he can't offer all his stuff for free. It USED to be > online for free at KCRW, but those days have passed. (Maybe Ira Glass should > pay some royalties to Joe, after all he learned his craft as an intern on > Joe's show- some of the This American Life programs even use some of the > same music used in Joe Frank programs..... but actually I doubt if Ira > Glass & CO have money laying around in great heaps.) > > Maybe we all need to writing our congressmen to have Joe declared a living > national treasure and have his work supported by a lifetime federal stipend > or something, but you know all that security might take the edge off his > work. ;-) > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list From eric at megacyberworld.com Fri Oct 29 05:49:18 2004 From: eric at megacyberworld.com (Eric Donaldson) Date: Fri Oct 29 05:47:04 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours a day? In-Reply-To: <15b.42839234.2eb17b9f@aol.com> References: <15b.42839234.2eb17b9f@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.1.1.0.20041029074438.02497800@mail.megacyberworld.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041029/4d856da8/attachment.htm -------------- next part -------------- --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.773 / Virus Database: 520 - Release Date: 10/5/2004 From jump_monk at hotmail.com Fri Oct 29 06:38:34 2004 From: jump_monk at hotmail.com (Matthew Hawco) Date: Fri Oct 29 06:39:07 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public Message-ID: hello that's good.. send a copy here please :) matt >From: Erik Shirokoff >Reply-To: Joe Frank Mailing List >To: Joe Frank Mailing List >Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public >Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 01:34:01 -0700 > > >The article seems to have disappeared completely from the web site. > >I've got a copy of the page from 2004-05-01. If anyone wants it, let me >know. I'm not posting it to the list just in case Joe has a compelling >reason to want it gone. > >You could make the case that by posting something online one is inviting >its eternal public survival, and I'd happily agree demanding that people >not post archives of a web site is unreasonable. At the same time, if Joe >wants the page eliminated, I'm not inclined to annoy him by adding a copy >to the mailing list archive for all eternity. It would certainly piss me >off if a fan made copies of everything I wrote online and reposted it years >later. (There are certainly benefits to working in a field which doesn't >generate fans.) > > >- Erik > > > >On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 11:24:16PM -0700, Beau Gunderson wrote: > > Tried in vain to find the article on joefrank.com about him getting >fired > > (it was more about the other woman fired by Seymour but it was pretty > > informative) but it's not there anymore! I even checked the Wayback >machine > > but it wasn't on there either. I remember it being linked from the front > > page, anybody else know what I'm talking about? > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ > > > > From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com > > [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of >BILLMILOSZ@aol.com > > Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:09 PM > > To: joe-frank-list@armory.com > > Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public > > > > > > > > To fsedghip@yahoo.ca - you raised some very interesting ideas, I found >your > > post thought-provoking. Obviously you took some time putting that >together. > > > > As I consider the issues you raised, many of which impact all of us as > > consumers of electronic "art" (music, film, literature, etc.) I want to > > make a few observations. > > > > You mention ThisLife.Org - Ira Glass's THIS AMERICAN LIFE program which >is > > carried on NPR and originates at WBEZ in Chicago. There is an exact > > parallel here, Joe Frank used to have a radio "home" at KCRW in Santa > > Monica, and they supported him with some money, maybe some >administrative > > help and also provided a studio and gear, etc. But Joe and KCRW had >some > > kind of falling out, if not a falling out then at least a parting of the > > ways. I'm not sure what it was all about, except I know Joe is unhappy > > about something which he may have experienced as betrayal or some other > > negative action by KCRW or it's management. I can't find any info about >it, > > all I've heard / read /seen from Joe on the issue is, "Oh, let's not go >into > > that, let's just move on." I don't know what went wrong, but KCRW DOES >seem > > to have retreated from any position of leadership they may have had in >terms > > of free speech and the arts, and they seem to be getting more >conservative. > > Maybe it's all that money- I've read that KCRW raises more $$$ than any > > other NPR affiliate. > > > > In any event, Joe Frank doesn't have a "patron" in the same way that Ira > > Glass does at WBEZ, so he can't offer all his stuff for free. It USED >to be > > online for free at KCRW, but those days have passed. (Maybe Ira Glass >should > > pay some royalties to Joe, after all he learned his craft as an intern >on > > Joe's show- some of the This American Life programs even use some of >the > > same music used in Joe Frank programs..... but actually I doubt if Ira > > Glass & CO have money laying around in great heaps.) > > > > Maybe we all need to writing our congressmen to have Joe declared a >living > > national treasure and have his work supported by a lifetime federal >stipend > > or something, but you know all that security might take the edge off his > > work. ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Joe Frank Mailing List > > joe-frank-list@armory.com > > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > >_______________________________________________ >Joe Frank Mailing List >joe-frank-list@armory.com >http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list From BILLMILOSZ at aol.com Fri Oct 29 21:01:08 2004 From: BILLMILOSZ at aol.com (BILLMILOSZ@aol.com) Date: Fri Oct 29 21:01:19 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Chicago performance Message-ID: <9e.1854d514.2eb46c04@aol.com> Wonder if anyone else on the list here caught the Chicago Joe Frank performance tonight? I found it entertaining, although in a way it was like "Joe Frank Lite" - maybe he toned it down a little for the Third Coast Audio Festival (see note, below) people who made up the bulk of the audience. A bit more humor than I expected. Not that Joe isn't funny- it's just it seemed he was more out to get laughs than I expected, looking for attention and audience approval. Like we all do. I had never seen Joe Frank in person before, and I found he looks far older than I expected based on his voice and the other pictures of him I've seen. He looks old but he doesn't look dilapidated, though; not that appearance is all that important, but it is part of the overall impression. He looked rather distinguished, really. The biggest treat were clips from some Joe Frank films- parts of the "Inside Out" series and maybe also part of "Memories" which was done by Paul Rachman. The whole thing, with a dancer and a fluglehorn player along with Joe reading and the film clips, was nicely tied together. The worst part about it- at 90 minutes in length, it was over too soon. I think this is the same show he's bringing to Great American Music Hall in San Francisco, and tickets for that are still available. If you're near San Francisco, or maybe would just like to go there anyway (it's a great place to go, I used to live there) you should most certainly check it out. JOEFRANK.COM has details.The show here in Chicago sold out, so maybe it's wise to get tickets early for San Francisco, although it's in a bigger venue there and there are two shows. One thing I didn't like- the sound guy miked Joe wrong, in my opinion. It was nice crisp audio but sounded a little "thin" to really have that "Joe Frank dark" sonic color. They need to EQ it differently, in my opinion, so it sounds more like his broadcasts, that rich warm mellow DARK sound. He sounded a bit too reedy, the upper overtones were not balanced right to give that "Joe sound." He is about the sound, after all. NOTE: THIRD COAST AUDIO FESTIVAL is an annual international conference / series of talks and exhibits which focuses on radio documentaries and also some "nondocumentary" forms like Joe Frank, Gregory Whitehead, etc. See www.ThirdCoastFestival.org for more info and they have a lot of interesting stuff there to listen to. It's tied in with the program Re:Sound which originates at WBEZ in Chicago. Interesting, isn't it, that Third Coast Festival, Re:Sound and This American Life, three of the most interesting cross-boundary radio programs are based in the Midwest, which folks on the coasts think is so conservative and square. I can't think of any other programs which are widely distributed in the US which make such creative use of the media, except maybe The Next Big Thing, out of NYC. Nothing from L.A. at all. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041030/e5b4f08b/attachment.htm From bobl at 1amsoftware.com Fri Oct 29 05:28:02 2004 From: bobl at 1amsoftware.com (Bob Lee) Date: Fri Oct 29 23:31:05 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public References: <200410282324.aa27208@deepthought.armory.com> Message-ID: <006e01c4bdb2$bc7466f0$6112060a@IBMBOBSX30> He was sort of vague about the entire removal process from Kcrw until last may when he and another Ex personality of KCRW did a live show on the subject of Ruth Seyour, in los angeles. Even after seeing an entire show about the subject the facts are still somewhat unclear. Only his feelings seem to be clear to me, and really whats more imporant ? who actually said what when, or what the process did to Joe's soul 3 years on... Some of the content of Joe Live show there has ended up on the new show on his web site. Times Arrow. I suggest that you get it.. Its not best work joe has ever done...but it is a way to show support for his continued work. Bob Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: Beau Gunderson To: 'Joe Frank Mailing List' Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 2:24 AM Subject: RE: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public Tried in vain to find the article on joefrank.com about him getting fired (it was more about the other woman fired by Seymour but it was pretty informative) but it's not there anymore! I even checked the Wayback machine but it wasn't on there either. I remember it being linked from the front page, anybody else know what I'm talking about? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of BILLMILOSZ@aol.com Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:09 PM To: joe-frank-list@armory.com Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public To fsedghip@yahoo.ca - you raised some very interesting ideas, I found your post thought-provoking. Obviously you took some time putting that together. As I consider the issues you raised, many of which impact all of us as consumers of electronic "art" (music, film, literature, etc.) I want to make a few observations. You mention ThisLife.Org - Ira Glass's THIS AMERICAN LIFE program which is carried on NPR and originates at WBEZ in Chicago. There is an exact parallel here, Joe Frank used to have a radio "home" at KCRW in Santa Monica, and they supported him with some money, maybe some administrative help and also provided a studio and gear, etc. But Joe and KCRW had some kind of falling out, if not a falling out then at least a parting of the ways. I'm not sure what it was all about, except I know Joe is unhappy about something which he may have experienced as betrayal or some other negative action by KCRW or it's management. I can't find any info about it, all I've heard / read /seen from Joe on the issue is, "Oh, let's not go into that, let's just move on." I don't know what went wrong, but KCRW DOES seem to have retreated from any position of leadership they may have had in terms of free speech and the arts, and they seem to be getting more conservative. Maybe it's all that money- I've read that KCRW raises more $$$ than any other NPR affiliate. In any event, Joe Frank doesn't have a "patron" in the same way that Ira Glass does at WBEZ, so he can't offer all his stuff for free. It USED to be online for free at KCRW, but those days have passed. (Maybe Ira Glass should pay some royalties to Joe, after all he learned his craft as an intern on Joe's show- some of the This American Life programs even use some of the same music used in Joe Frank programs..... but actually I doubt if Ira Glass & CO have money laying around in great heaps.) Maybe we all need to writing our congressmen to have Joe declared a living national treasure and have his work supported by a lifetime federal stipend or something, but you know all that security might take the edge off his work. ;-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Joe Frank Mailing List joe-frank-list@armory.com http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041029/f9e540ca/attachment.htm From BILLMILOSZ at aol.com Sat Oct 30 00:39:02 2004 From: BILLMILOSZ at aol.com (BILLMILOSZ@aol.com) Date: Sat Oct 30 00:39:10 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public Message-ID: <99.50082b68.2eb49f16@aol.com> In a message dated 10/30/2004 1:32:50 AM Central Daylight Time, bobl@1amsoftware.com writes: > a way to show support for his continued work. I think this is a critical thing here. We, fans or devotees or acolytes or just interested listeners, want more, new Joe Frank programs. How can we get them? Well, JoeFrank.Com is trying out the idea of SUBSCRIPTION. If there are enough paid "members" of JoeFrank.com then there's enough money to pay to do more material. One program a month is a good pace, I think, I am satisfied with that. Like a magazine. And as someone who did radio production for 13 years, I don't know how Joe Frank kept the high quality standards and still produced a new show every week back in "The Day" - that kind of pace would really burn anyone out. (Actually I think the intensity of it also yielded some interesting results- the effect of that punishing production regime on Joe's work and perhaps on the man himself is interesting to see. But it couldn't go on forever like that.) So, with subscription we have a model of a way to have new Joe Frank material, and he has a way to sustain himself and the work. But can it work? There's a break-even number of subscribers they have to attain. And the costs of hosting streaming media are quite high, so I would think they'd need A LOT of subscribers. So that means: in order to ensure the success of this, and make sure we can follow the work of this fascinating artist along the journey he's on, we would ALL be well advised to subscribe. If you can afford it, I strongly urge everyone on this discussion list to subscribe to JoeFrank.Com - you know, if you have to, drop your subscription to American Chiropodist, or maybe stop sponsoring those children in Guatemala, but find the $12.99 a month. I found I could water down my father's insulin a little and come up with $12.99 a month. It's really not that much money. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041030/7821522c/attachment.htm From ddyer at real-me.net Sat Oct 30 01:00:58 2004 From: ddyer at real-me.net (Dave Dyer) Date: Sat Oct 30 01:02:07 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public In-Reply-To: <99.50082b68.2eb49f16@aol.com> References: <99.50082b68.2eb49f16@aol.com> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.1.20041030004338.03701e78@127.0.0.1> Joe's work was all public, or at leat 95% of if was, due to the dilligent efforts of his fans, who collected, stored, and supplied bandwidth to distribute it. All at no cost (and no income) to Joe. But it did keep the flame alive, and the sometimes inferior technical quality and/or censored for airplay versions served to tease fans into buying real copies on CD. Lets be charitable and say that Joe is in a dry spell in his creative career, and is trying various means to cash in on his glory days, when he had an audience of millions. His live performances are great (so I've read here) but play to those who remember his radio work. This subscription plan is another way to extract a little more cash from his ageing fan base. I don't see either of these things as career advancing moves. Sadly, I fear his remarks upon receiving the lifetime achievement I have no idea if joefrank.com is being created by well paid professionals or another cadre of devoted fans, but I can't imagine that this subscription plan will generate enough income to justify a realistic account of the expenses involved. At 12:39 AM 10/30/2004, BILLMILOSZ@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 10/30/2004 1:32:50 AM Central Daylight Time, bobl@1amsoftware.com writes: > >>a way to show support for his continued work. > > >I think this is a critical thing here. We, fans or devotees or acolytes or just interested listeners, want more, new Joe Frank programs. How can we get them? Well, JoeFrank.Com is trying out the idea of SUBSCRIPTION. If there are enough paid "members" of JoeFrank.com then there's enough money to pay to do more material. One program a month is a good pace, I think, I am satisfied with that. Like a magazine. And as someone who did radio production for 13 years, I don't know how Joe Frank kept the high quality standards and still produced a new show every week back in "The Day" - that kind of pace would really burn anyone out. (Actually I think the intensity of it also yielded some interesting results- the effect of that punishing production regime on Joe's work and perhaps on the man himself is interesting to see. But it couldn't go on forever like that.) > >So, with subscription we have a model of a way to have new Joe Frank material, and he has a way to sustain himself and the work. But can it work? There's a break-even number of subscribers they have to attain. And the costs of hosting streaming media are quite high, so I would think they'd need A LOT of subscribers. > >So that means: in order to ensure the success of this, and make sure we can follow the work of this fascinating artist along the journey he's on, we would ALL be well advised to subscribe. If you can afford it, I strongly urge everyone on this discussion list to subscribe to JoeFrank.Com - you know, if you have to, drop your subscription to American Chiropodist, or maybe stop sponsoring those children in Guatemala, but find the $12.99 a month. I found I could water down my father's insulin a little and come up with $12.99 a month. It's really not that much money. >_______________________________________________ >Joe Frank Mailing List >joe-frank-list@armory.com >http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041030/40fd3774/attachment-0001.htm From ddyer at real-me.net Sat Oct 30 01:06:04 2004 From: ddyer at real-me.net (Dave Dyer) Date: Sat Oct 30 01:06:55 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.1.20041030010154.03702250@127.0.0.1> Joe's work was all public, or at leat 95% of if was, due to the dilligent efforts of his fans, who collected, stored, and supplied bandwidth to distribute it. All at no cost (and no income) to Joe. But it did keep the flame alive, and the sometimes inferior technical quality and/or censored for airplay versions served to tease fans into buying real copies on CD. Lets be charitable and say that Joe is in a dry spell in his creative career, and is trying various means to cash in on his glory days, when he had an audience of millions. His live performances are great (so I've read here) but play to those who remember his radio work. This subscription plan is another way to extract a little more cash from his ageing fan base. I don't see either of these things as career advancing moves. Sadly, I fear his remarks upon receiving the lifetime achievement award will prove accurate. I have no idea if joefrank.com is being created by well paid professionals or another cadre of devoted fans, but I can't imagine that this subscription plan will generate enough income to justify a realistic account of the expenses involved. Meantime it has succeeded in making joe's work a lot less acessable. That can't be good for the long run. From MarkwP3096 at aol.com Sat Oct 30 02:48:17 2004 From: MarkwP3096 at aol.com (MarkwP3096@aol.com) Date: Sat Oct 30 02:48:24 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours a day Message-ID: I first heard Joe Frank on a drive from Davis, CA back to San Francisco around 8 years ago. Since then, I have purchased nearly $500.00 in both tapes and CD's from KCRW as well as having flown down to LA to see him at Wadsworth many years ago. For whatever it's worth, I've always thought that Frank deserved to be paid for his work although the customer service from KCRW always sucked. If you like the guy's work, be prepared to pay for it. Everyone's got to eat. Best regards, M.W. Palasits San Francisco, CA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041030/6b2aec4c/attachment.htm From BILLMILOSZ at aol.com Sat Oct 30 14:32:00 2004 From: BILLMILOSZ at aol.com (BILLMILOSZ@aol.com) Date: Sat Oct 30 14:32:09 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours a day Message-ID: <19f.2b51b742.2eb56250@aol.com> In a message dated 10/30/2004 4:49:28 AM Central Daylight Time, MarkwP3096@aol.com writes: > If you like the guy's work, be prepared to pay for it. Everyone's got to > eat. Absolutely. As far as the comment on "This subscription plan is another way to extract a little more cash from his ageing fan base" This sounds like there's an assumption, on the part of the guy who wrote that, that Joe made PILES of money in his "salad days"- whoever thinks this has not worked in Public Radio, or in the creative arts in any way. NOBODY in Public Radio makes any money! People in public radio are either volunteers, hardscrabble independent producers, or low-paid staff, aside from a few bigshots at NPR in Washington, DC, and some top management at the bigger NPR stations, who get salaries above $50,000. The average Starbucks worker gets more salary and better benefits than the guys behind the microphones at your local NPR station. I worked in public radio for 13 years, and income of $20,000 (in 2004 dollars) for the producer of a program carried by the network was considered "the big time." As far as Joe being in a "Dry Spell" it's really nothing to do with his creativity or output- it's a lack of SUPPORT. When he was at KCRW they provided studio facilities which otherwise run $50~$100 an hour- and the general rule is that for every hour of material you hear on the radio there's 10-20 hours of studio work involved. I suspect with Joe it was more like 50 hours of studio and editing time for each hour aired. Then, too, Joe had engineering help, typically an audio engineer adds $10-$30 an hour on top of studio costs, then there's acting talent like Larry Block, they have to be paid perhaps a few hundred dollars per segment, and so on. Joe also had financial support from a number of foundations such as the NEA, the Guggenheim Foundation, and so on. Most of that money has dried up in general, foundation money available to support arts of all kinds has declined sharply over the past 20 years. Remember, when you see someone on TV there are commercial sponsors of the TV shows and so talent, producers and other staff of popular programs like "The Apprentice" share MILLIONS of dollars from the network because the sponsors -Coca Cola, Ford, etc., -- pay MILLIONS to run commercials during popular programs. A program like "Somewhere Out There" may have been available to tens of millions of listeners, but National Public Radio doesn't have even 1% of the money flowing through NBC. So Joe has NEVER "raked it in." And now, since KCRW pulled the plug (so it seems) on anything creative that is REMOTELY controversial, I suspect that Joe is hard pressed to pay his bills. He does voice-over work (I've heard him on Discovery Channel docutainment) and so on, which I'm sure is how he makes ends meet. His work is carried by a number of public stations, and the Joe Frank operation probably gets a few thousand dollars a year from that. It's not NEARLY enough support to have the full-time audio production operation going that would be needed to produce a new program each week, like in the old days. So, he's not "going dry"- he's been CAST ADRIFT, the minimal support that used to be offered to this important artist has been JERKED OUT FROM UNDER HIM. For anyone to think that a wealthy Joe Frank is trying to "squeeze a few more dollars" from his "fans" is really not in touch with the bleak financial reality of life in creative radio and the arts. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.armory.com/pipermail/joe-frank-list/attachments/20041030/6215460b/attachment.htm From beau at nwcr.net Sat Oct 30 14:51:56 2004 From: beau at nwcr.net (Beau Gunderson) Date: Sat Oct 30 14:53:14 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20041030010154.03702250@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <200410301453.aa10704@deepthought.armory.com> "This subscription plan is another way to extract a little more cash from his ageing fan base." I'm 21 and found out about Joe through a friend who is the same age. He found out about it from a teacher in a sound production class. While it's true that the listeners who have been with Joe since the beginning could be considered "older" I'm sure that there are many young people finding about Mr. Frank every day. I've made many of my friends listen to shows (Prison Songs and Bible Salesman being the two I make people listen to most often) and they tend to love him. Beau. -----Original Message----- From: joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com [mailto:joe-frank-list-bounces@armory.com] On Behalf Of Dave Dyer Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 1:06 AM To: Joe Frank Mailing List; joe-frank-list@armory.com Subject: Re: [joe-frank-list] Re: make Joe's radio public Joe's work was all public, or at leat 95% of if was, due to the dilligent efforts of his fans, who collected, stored, and supplied bandwidth to distribute it. All at no cost (and no income) to Joe. But it did keep the flame alive, and the sometimes inferior technical quality and/or censored for airplay versions served to tease fans into buying real copies on CD. Lets be charitable and say that Joe is in a dry spell in his creative career, and is trying various means to cash in on his glory days, when he had an audience of millions. His live performances are great (so I've read here) but play to those who remember his radio work. This subscription plan is another way to extract a little more cash from his ageing fan base. I don't see either of these things as career advancing moves. Sadly, I fear his remarks upon receiving the lifetime achievement award will prove accurate. I have no idea if joefrank.com is being created by well paid professionals or another cadre of devoted fans, but I can't imagine that this subscription plan will generate enough income to justify a realistic account of the expenses involved. Meantime it has succeeded in making joe's work a lot less acessable. That can't be good for the long run. _______________________________________________ Joe Frank Mailing List joe-frank-list@armory.com http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list From ddyer at real-me.net Sat Oct 30 15:23:45 2004 From: ddyer at real-me.net (Dave Dyer) Date: Sat Oct 30 15:26:08 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] re: a few dollars more Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.1.20041030151013.037f35b0@127.0.0.1> I certaintly didn't mean to imply that Joe ever made piles of money, or that he's greedy. More likely, at least for his radio work, he's gone from subsistance income to no income. However, net of expenses involved, the subscription scheme isn't going to improve his balance sheet in the short run, and will hurt in the long run. I'm firmly in the camp that believes that music (or Joe Frank) sharing creates a larger audience for the offical product. From justin at kempton.com Sat Oct 30 17:17:25 2004 From: justin at kempton.com (Justin Kempton) Date: Sat Oct 30 17:18:57 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Audio Acid Experiement #1 - Paranoia In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41842F15.2040908@kempton.com> To all Joe Frank fans and lovers of strange audio, ...Inspired by the work of Joe Frank whose late night audio on KCRW broke all levels of norms and tradition, at some point I came to believe that audio diaries themselves might have long term historical importance for future societies. That, on their own, they capture just as accurately a feeling and understanding of the times we live in as any music CD or interview. And since there are many recording artists, why not have many audio journalists? And though I love Joe Frank's work much more then my own, it had seemed at the time that the flow of new material stopped coming from him, and that perhaps there was room in the field for amateurs like myself to push the category forward.... to read and listen to more, visit this site : http://www.writersmugs.com/paranoia/index.php Regards, Justin Kempton From natsoulas at yahoo.com Sun Oct 31 09:10:48 2004 From: natsoulas at yahoo.com (Tony Natsoulas) Date: Sun Oct 31 09:12:21 2004 Subject: [joe-frank-list] Re: Joe Frank heard on the radio in Chicago 24 hours a day In-Reply-To: <19f.2b51b742.2eb56250@aol.com> Message-ID: <20041031171048.36262.qmail@web54410.mail.yahoo.com> I am sorry to be so forward, but not having a studio is no excuse. My friend produces professional commercials at home with his computer and professional microphone. He says it is a better quality and easier than the old days in a real studio. Also, I have been an artist for years and even in the lean time I have produce art. If you are an artist you have to make stuff. I think something else is happening other then what you mentioned. Tony --- BILLMILOSZ@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 10/30/2004 4:49:28 AM Central > Daylight Time, > MarkwP3096@aol.com writes: > > > If you like the guy's work, be prepared to pay for > it. Everyone's got to > > eat. > > Absolutely. > > As far as the comment on "This subscription > plan is another way to extract a little more cash > from his > ageing fan base" > > This sounds like there's an assumption, on the part > of the guy who wrote > that, that Joe made PILES of money in his "salad > days"- whoever thinks this has > not worked in Public Radio, or in the creative arts > in any way. NOBODY in > Public Radio makes any money! People in public radio > are either volunteers, > hardscrabble independent producers, or low-paid > staff, aside from a few bigshots at > NPR in Washington, DC, and some top management at > the bigger NPR stations, who > get salaries above $50,000. The average Starbucks > worker gets more salary and > better benefits than the guys behind the microphones > at your local NPR > station. I worked in public radio for 13 years, and > income of $20,000 (in 2004 > dollars) for the producer of a program carried by > the network was considered "the > big time." > > As far as Joe being in a "Dry Spell" it's really > nothing to do with his > creativity or output- it's a lack of SUPPORT. When > he was at KCRW they provided > studio facilities which otherwise run $50~$100 an > hour- and the general rule is > that for every hour of material you hear on the > radio there's 10-20 hours of > studio work involved. I suspect with Joe it was more > like 50 hours of studio > and editing time for each hour aired. Then, too, > Joe had engineering help, > typically an audio engineer adds $10-$30 an hour on > top of studio costs, then > there's acting talent like Larry Block, they have to > be paid perhaps a few hundred > dollars per segment, and so on. Joe also had > financial support from a number > of foundations such as the NEA, the Guggenheim > Foundation, and so on. Most > of that money has dried up in general, foundation > money available to support > arts of all kinds has declined sharply over the past > 20 years. > > Remember, when you see someone on TV there are > commercial sponsors of the TV > shows and so talent, producers and other staff of > popular programs like "The > Apprentice" share MILLIONS of dollars from the > network because the sponsors > -Coca Cola, Ford, etc., -- pay MILLIONS to run > commercials during popular > programs. A program like "Somewhere Out There" may > have been available to tens of > millions of listeners, but National Public Radio > doesn't have even 1% of the > money flowing through NBC. > > So Joe has NEVER "raked it in." And now, since KCRW > pulled the plug (so it > seems) on anything creative that is REMOTELY > controversial, I suspect that Joe > is hard pressed to pay his bills. He does > voice-over work (I've heard him on > Discovery Channel docutainment) and so on, which I'm > sure is how he makes ends > meet. His work is carried by a number of public > stations, and the Joe Frank > operation probably gets a few thousand dollars a > year from that. It's not > NEARLY enough support to have the full-time audio > production operation going that > would be needed to produce a new program each week, > like in the old days. > > So, he's not "going dry"- he's been CAST ADRIFT, the > minimal support that > used to be offered to this important artist has been > JERKED OUT FROM UNDER HIM. > > For anyone to think that a wealthy Joe Frank is > trying to "squeeze a few more > dollars" from his "fans" is really not in touch with > the bleak financial > reality of life in creative radio and the arts. > > _______________________________________________ > Joe Frank Mailing List > joe-frank-list@armory.com > http://www.armory.com/mailman/listinfo.cgi/joe-frank-list > ===== Tony and Donna Natsoulas natsoulas@yahoo.com Webpage:http://www.tonynatsoulas.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail